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diamond67
Starting Member
United Kingdom
 offline
12 Posts |
 Posted - 14/08/2005 : 16:33:37
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Hello Forum - I am trying to establish if there are any other angry owners of a canal timeshare with Ethos (was renamed from Cascadas) who have received a letter telling us that they are putting a levy charge on us for £299.00 - over and above the management fees already paid... with a further levy of £68.52 in august next year.
Quite simply - we do not have this kind of money lying around. The leeter arrived on Friday 12th August - with the invoice and letter accompanying dated the 1st August - quite clearly BACKDATED...
This letter and accompanying doucumentation says that unless the money is paid - they will quite simply seize the timeshare and sell it to raise the cash they need.
It also says that - despite the fact that we were told the boats were new by the agent we purchased from - that the boats were in fact second hand.
I may not have the cash for the levy at present - however I do have legal insurance and am seeking legal advice on the matter.
By the way - if anyone reading this is thinking of complaining to the OTE - I would suggest saving the postage. We did this some years ago on first discovering that timeshares are not an investment - (the purpose for which we were sold one.. and we simply referred back to the sales company. NOTHING was done.
Luckily my legal insurance will at least give em the legal advise I need.
Oh by the way - if the timeshare is taken and sold and they still don't have enough money - the letter and documentation also says that they will taken people to court to get the extra to cover the debts that the management company has incurred.......... |
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diamond67
Starting Member
United Kingdom
offline
12 Posts |
Posted - 14/08/2005 : 19:48:51
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OK Here's the deal.... anyone reading this as angry as me - get in touch... I'm looking for other people in the same position so that we can all exchange information....
The more the merrier!!!!!!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by diamond67
Hello Forum - I am trying to establish if there are any other angry owners of a canal timeshare with Ethos (was renamed from Cascadas) who have received a letter telling us that they are putting a levy charge on us for £299.00 - over and above the management fees already paid... with a further levy of £68.52 in august next year.
Quite simply - we do not have this kind of money lying around. The leeter arrived on Friday 12th August - with the invoice and letter accompanying dated the 1st August - quite clearly BACKDATED...
This letter and accompanying doucumentation says that unless the money is paid - they will quite simply seize the timeshare and sell it to raise the cash they need.
It also says that - despite the fact that we were told the boats were new by the agent we purchased from - that the boats were in fact second hand.
I may not have the cash for the levy at present - however I do have legal insurance and am seeking legal advice on the matter.
By the way - if anyone reading this is thinking of complaining to the OTE - I would suggest saving the postage. We did this some years ago on first discovering that timeshares are not an investment - (the purpose for which we were sold one.. and we simply referred back to the sales company. NOTHING was done.
Luckily my legal insurance will at least give em the legal advise I need.
Oh by the way - if the timeshare is taken and sold and they still don't have enough money - the letter and documentation also says that they will taken people to court to get the extra to cover the debts that the management company has incurred..........
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Carolinian
Moderator
offline
775 Posts |
Posted - 15/08/2005 : 01:25:42
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| I have never heard of this timeshare. Where is it located? Is it with RCI, II, or independent? |
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Simoncc
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
offline
678 Posts |
Posted - 15/08/2005 : 08:41:05
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| I haven't been able to find any mention of Ethos/Cascadas in the on-line RCI directory, do you have a resort ID number? If not, where in the UK are the boats based? |
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diamond67
Starting Member
United Kingdom
offline
12 Posts |
Posted - 15/08/2005 : 15:07:04
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now theres a good question... never use the thing so I'm not sure...
erm lets see now - it started out in the prime location of london - and no sooner had we bought when they were moved to stratford upon avon... as far as I'm aware thats where they still are... I think they also used to be stratford court cruises...
(quite frankly - until they tried to rip me off for the umpteenth time I wasn't really interested - but now I will have to drag out all the paperwork for the legal bods....) |
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Simoncc
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
offline
678 Posts |
Posted - 15/08/2005 : 15:54:11
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quote:
Originally posted by diamond67
I think they also used to be stratford court cruises...
I've found them, they are still listed with RCI as Stratford Court. I was offered an August week for sale in their Stratford apartments last year - probably as well that I didn't take it up. |
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diamond67
Starting Member
United Kingdom
offline
12 Posts |
Posted - 16/08/2005 : 17:36:13
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Dear All,
I have dealt with TCA previously - Mr Sandy Grey - He is very knowledgable and trustworthy.
With my previous complaint channelled through the slight less than toothless OTE - he gave good advice, and never misled me.....
I hope that all members in this situation club together and resolve this issue....
On the point in the response from stratford/ethos or whatever they call themselves now..... I do not believe for one moment that they are experiencing a good response to this.
It would be more appropriate for the company to agree to sell unwanted timeshares due to the excessive fees resulting from poor management (well - basically that is what it is, isn't it) deduct the levy to keep the scheme going and so the new owner doesn't get thumped with it.... and return the rest to the original owner.
3K (as that is what they said the timeshare is worth (although we paid A LOT more - I mean seriously ripped off) - pro-rata calculated to the remainder of the term, less the £299.00 would be a fair price - and the decent thing to do - as they say they can easily sell the timeshare (something we haven't been able to do since we bought the blooming thing......)  |
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tillo
New Member
Supporting Member
0 Points
United Kingdom
offline
61 Posts |
Posted - 17/08/2005 : 16:35:50
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Can I make it clear about timing of the levy payment, you have 30 days from recipt of the levy not 1st August (this was an admin error) and everyone will recieve a letter to explain and apologise this. After that you have a further 30 days so in total you have 60 days to pay the levy. Could I also ask that if you do quote or publish emails please show everyone all of it not edited highlights.
More than happy to talk to anyone worried on FREEPHONE 0800 317377
Mark Tildesley |
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diamond67
Starting Member
United Kingdom
offline
12 Posts |
Posted - 17/08/2005 : 20:49:36
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Mr Tildesly,
It would appear that, on such an important subject, perhaps you neglected to read the letter to which you put your name.
I apologise for not typing the whole of your letter and simply using extracts but I am a busy full-time contracts administrator, and my time in the evenings is currently spent preparing a file to present to my solicitor. Your letter says (paragraph 5) "I am aware that getting an invoice unexpectedly causes problems for many people who work on monthly budgets..." (you don't say-go figure that) ... and are now budgeting for the annual Maintenance Fees due in January next year, although we cannot help by monthly or split payments what were are doing is dividing the payment date into two instalments one now and another in August 2006". Please note your own statement in your letter - "one now"...not due on 31st August and payable within 30 days after. Your Invoice also states the invoice is due now. Only tucked down at the end of the questions and answers are there details about the 30-60 days. Indeed on the rear of the letter (page two) you request payment within 30 days...conflicting requests and instructions...
This oversight simply enhances the perception of poor administration, management and contradiction that many of the owners feel is rife in the organisation.
I would strongly suggest that you look at offering to purchase members weeks on a pro-rata basis for the remainder of the term of the ownership and deduct the value of the levy from the sale price. Disclosure of the selling price to the new owner would be required. Otherwise - I can see that this is a situation that is going to cost your company dearly in bad publicity and damage to reputation from which it is unlikely you will recover.
Regards,
Diamon67
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Derek King
Starting Member
United Kingdom
offline
1 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2005 : 17:58:18
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| Yes, we're angry. We own 2 weeks with Ethos/ Stratford Court/Cascadas (take your pick!!)& have received this levy request. Being retired, we can only pay this out of funds saved for the management fees due in January, which will no doubt be a significant increase over last year's fees! Our only option it seems, would be to hand back these weeks & take the 'hit' in the pocket for the original amount because I do believe this won't be the end of the requests for more money. Certainly if we pay this levy now, we won't have the fees required in January & we'll have to forfeit our ownership then. |
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justbrowsing
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
offline
630 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2006 : 18:50:31
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Dear all,
I empathise with your problems outlined above.
I believe, however, that there may be ways out of your contracts if, in fact, they are similar to the one I have with a rival company.
I would very much like to be able to compare yours with mine.
Would anybody please be kind enough to scan their Terms and Conditions documents and e-mail to me at:
just.browsing@tesco.net
Please cover any confidential data written into your papers before scanning (to maintain your own privacy).
And if you do not have broadband then please consider e-mailing the pages in small batches (so as not to clog up your computer).
Many thanks. |
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justbrowsing
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
offline
630 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2006 : 21:20:13
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Just to add a little further information:
Did you know that:
Ethos Management Services Ltd (Company No. SC156878)who were formerly known as Cascadas Management Ltd and
Ethos Narrowboats Ltd (Company No. SC167127) who were formerly known as Stratford Court Cruisers Ltd
have their Registered Offices at:
48 St Vincent Street, Glasgow.
Now that also happens to be the Registered address of Brechin Tyndall & Oatts (solicitors).
The TCA recommends insurance can be bought from Chubbs through .... guess .... Brechin Tyndal & Oatts (check the TCA web).
I do not believe that solicitors should, sensibly, align themselves with both a consumer protection organisation and the vendors of dubious timeshares (or floating weeks or call them what you will). |
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Suebe
Average Member
United Kingdom
offline
221 Posts |
Posted - 13/07/2007 : 17:24:30
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quote:
Originally posted by ChrisM
Well there are now four or five ethos owners who have quoted their disgust about the UNFAIR AND UNJUST LEVY CHARGE. There must be many more of us out there. But what we need is not just simply jotting our fustration about it on this forum page we need to try to come up with a collective solution. So if anyone has any ideas say so I have thought of writing to the crusader in the Daily Express do not know if it will be of any good but it is worth a try. So come on get your thinking caps on share your ideas and we all might get somewhere with this problem. Waiting to hear from you all ChrisM
In 2005 a number of members got together and contested the levy being charged then. This was all done initially via owners contacting other owners via the TCA forum which does not seem to operate now. It resulted in meetings with the Ethos management to try to resolve the issue and was a chance for owners to decide whether they were going to pay up or walk away.
You might want to contact Sandy Grey at TCA who might be able to give you more information (www.timeshare.org.uk)
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Sue B |
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Joffbridge
New Member
United Kingdom
offline
33 Posts |
Posted - 19/07/2007 : 14:56:14
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| I too have been caught by this Ethos lot. I've refused to pay the £175 Levy, which is obviously imposed because the Rules prevent them raising the annual Maint. Charge by more than RPI. In e-mails, they tell me RCI Points which owned 800 weeks, yes 800, has pulled out! No wonder the finances are in a mess! I'm threatened with court action, my preference is to surrender my rights and walk away, but they want £175.99 for that. I only bought for the conversion to RCI points, and they are proving to be expensive! Done some homework on Companies House website. I've found that Ethos Pointsworld Ltd(defunct), Ethos Narrowboats Ltd, Timeshare Direct Ltd (now defunct) and Timeshare Direct Group Ltd all have the same Directors, ie. Mark and Fran Tildesley! Surprising, ain't it! I don't think it's illegal for a Company to fleece the punters, go bust, and start up again with a clean sheet, but it's certainly immoral. I'd love to see this lot in court, but I've got a feeling they've got the con tracts sewn up and 'friends in the right places' |
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acer
New Member
United Kingdom
offline
91 Posts |
Posted - 19/07/2007 : 20:24:02
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| In the past there was a group of owners formed who 'organised' themselves to resist these surcharges and took up the issues with the management company with some success. |
ff |
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Joffbridge
New Member
United Kingdom
offline
33 Posts |
Posted - 19/07/2007 : 21:11:23
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| It's been suggested we approach something like the BBC Watchdog, they'll expose these two 'directors' for what they are. If I said here what I think they are, that could be libelous, so I won't, not in public anyway! |
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Suebe
Average Member
United Kingdom
offline
221 Posts |
Posted - 20/07/2007 : 14:15:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Joffbridge
I too have been caught by this Ethos lot. I've refused to pay the £175 Levy, which is obviously imposed because the Rules prevent them raising the annual Maint. Charge by more than RPI. In e-mails, they tell me RCI Points which owned 800 weeks, yes 800, has pulled out! No wonder the finances are in a mess! I'm threatened with court action, my preference is to surrender my rights and walk away, but they want £175.99 for that. I only bought for the conversion to RCI points, and they are proving to be expensive! Done some homework on Companies House website. I've found that Ethos Pointsworld Ltd(defunct), Ethos Narrowboats Ltd, Timeshare Direct Ltd (now defunct) and Timeshare Direct Group Ltd all have the same Directors, ie. Mark and Fran Tildesley! Surprising, ain't it! I don't think it's illegal for a Company to fleece the punters, go bust, and start up again with a clean sheet, but it's certainly immoral. I'd love to see this lot in court, but I've got a feeling they've got the con tracts sewn up and 'friends in the right places'
I don't think that RCI has "pulled out" - there are still around 800 weeks from this organisation within the points scheme. In 2005 it used to be more like 1,000 weeks.
Why did you buy a week from them to convert into points?
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Sue B |
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acer
New Member
United Kingdom
offline
91 Posts |
Posted - 22/07/2007 : 08:04:05
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If you paid by credit card and if you can show that you were subject to misrepresentation when you were sold ie not told about boats not being available in February, you will be able to be refunded through your credit card - even though it was sometime ago - normally you have at least 3 years - sometimes longer.
Alternatively, if you have legal expenses insurance eg on your household insurance (always a useful addition), you will be able to fund a civil case for return of your funds. |
ff |
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Joffbridge
New Member
United Kingdom
offline
33 Posts |
Posted - 23/07/2007 : 15:27:53
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Following a phone call with one of you, I've just filled in the form on the BBC Watchdog site, giving brief details, and pointing them to this forum site to have a look at all our complaints.
Anyone else want to give that a go? If enough of us approach them, we just might get something done. |
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Joffbridge
New Member
United Kingdom
offline
33 Posts |
Posted - 23/07/2007 : 22:02:09
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| For what it's worth, I've just e-mailed FNTC as trustees. This mess is probably beyond their remit, but I've suggested they might 'have a word' with Mark and Fran |
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CliveR
Starting Member
United Kingdom
offline
2 Posts |
Posted - 24/07/2007 : 20:49:39
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Hi Forum,
Attended seminar in Hereford with Pointsworld re NX Conversion in 2005 info published in R.C.I.magazine rue the day i met this bunch of bandits they exchanged one of my weeks to Narrowboats plus a charge to recieve additional points,they took my money but did not carry out the required administration R.C.I.had to sort this out,i then questioned R.C.I.regarding their credibilty but was assured they were a reputable company,now we all know different.
Will support any move to bring this bunch to their knees.
Clive R |
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sandy
Starting Member
United Kingdom
offline
6 Posts |
Posted - 25/07/2007 : 17:13:09
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I bought 6500 points (February occupancy) from Ethos Pointsworld 2 years ago and paid £950 and am very angry at having to pay the levy of £175. I got the letter at the beginning of July but it is dated 14th June and I am concerned what will happen if I refuse to pay. Iam happy to forget about the points with Ethos but have been told by RCI that 1 years notice must be given to surrender the points and that all fees must be paid until then.
Can anyone give advice about the best way to go?
Could people like me get together and share the cost of legal advice? I certainly would be willing to share costs. |
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Joffbridge
New Member
United Kingdom
offline
33 Posts |
Posted - 25/07/2007 : 20:02:57
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Looks like I'm the first one for the drop! I've refused to pay the Levy, and surrendered without paying the 175.99 surrender fee. So they advised me by e-mail on Tuesday that 'we have issued court proceedings today'. Haven't had anything through yet, but I'll keep you posted when I do. I'm lucky, I've got legal protection insurance in with my house insurance (THANKS, ACER), so I'm defending on the basis of misrep on sale,and they can't have the contractual right to issue levy invoices willy-nilly, we might as well have given them a blank cheque. I've told RCI I'm resigning from Points, they've sent me a form to complete, they can't do much about it. I'm up-to-date with my RCI m'ship, (also own two fixed red weeks in Spain), in fact I've borrowed from next year's points which will now never exist! I've asked them to bill me for those direct. As far as I am concerned, I no longer have anything to do with Ethos - they are just a bunch of crooks. But because I haven't paid to surrender, just sent them the docs, they're still suing for the Levy, as far as they are concerned until I PAY to surrender, I'm still a member!
We really do have to nail this lot! |
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Joffbridge
New Member
United Kingdom
offline
33 Posts |
Posted - 26/07/2007 : 15:00:01
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| Under the Theft Act 1968, Sect 8, there is a criminal offence of 'demanding money with menaces'. Does anyone have any legal knowledge? Does 'menace' only refer to physical violence, or does it include the 'or else' of court action? |
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Joffbridge
New Member
United Kingdom
offline
33 Posts |
Posted - 26/07/2007 : 22:09:49
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| Whichever way you slice it, it defies natural justice for Ethos, or anyone else for that matter, to issue whatever invoice they like whenever they like and give us ordinary mortals no option but to pay, and quick! We might as well all of us have given them a fistful of blank cheques. Then whenever the directors each want a new Merc, or a holiday, or a swimming pool at home................ At that rate, they effectively have a licence to print money, only the Bank of England can do that! (Apart from a couple of Scottish banks) I know it's scary, and tempting to take the easy way out, but then how much will next year's Levy be? Could be ten times as much. And the year after that? This has just got to be stopped now! I'm still awaiting my Court Papers, which were supposed to be being prepared on Tuesday, when I get them I'll add a new comment here. 'Watch this space..............' |
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Joffbridge
New Member
United Kingdom
offline
33 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2007 : 17:43:04
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| Is anyone else considering claiming on their house insurance, legal protection bit? I happen to be with Halifax, but the legal bit is outsourced to DAS in Bristol, I suspect many insurance companies would use that same outsourcing. So, if more of you go down that route, DAS is going to be inundated, which just might make someone sit up and take notice. I've also gone to RCI again, pointing them to this website, if they trouble to take a look, they might just realise that their name ain't going to look so good when this all comes out. |
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acer
New Member
United Kingdom
offline
91 Posts |
Posted - 28/07/2007 : 08:42:49
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It is quite normal for Legal Expenses to be outsourced. I have used DAS in the past and found the service very good.
S 8 of the Theft Act 1968 refers to 'Robbery' and whilst emotively would seem appropriate, does not really apply to this situation.
s 17 False Accounting or s 19 False Statements by Company Directors may be more appropriate, but you would need to obtain legal opinion. |
ff |
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acer
New Member
United Kingdom
offline
91 Posts |
Posted - 28/07/2007 : 09:13:07
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If you are contesting the Rules and Regulations of the Scheme Documentation, this would normally lie in a Civil action rather than take recourse to Criminal Law ie the Theft Act 1968.
Also the standard of proof is lower in Civil Law (balance of probablility) than Criminal Law (beyond reasonable doubt). |
ff |
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Joffbridge
New Member
United Kingdom
offline
33 Posts |
Posted - 31/07/2007 : 13:26:33
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| I was promised 'court papers being issued today' last Tuesday 24th July. Not only are their finances in a mess, their admin generally appears to be in a state of neglect! |
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acer
New Member
United Kingdom
offline
91 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2007 : 17:57:07
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| Presumably these 'Court Papers' were some sort of threat in respect of breach of contract on your part. Many people have been threatened in this way, but no one has reported that they have actually received such papers. However, it is not a pleasant feeling having the possibility of this happening, hence it would be sensible to involve your legal representation at an early stage. |
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tillo
New Member
Supporting Member
0 Points
United Kingdom
offline
61 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2007 : 10:33:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Joffbridge
I was promised 'court papers being issued today' last Tuesday 24th July. Not only are their finances in a mess, their admin generally appears to be in a state of neglect!
EMAIL TO ETHOS
We surrender, in every sense.
We'll send you 175.99 plus whatever paperwork you want, then we can get on with our lives. Just please tell us where and what to sign, and where to send that plus our cheque, so we can draw a line
John and Dorothy Baines
Fordingbridge
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