| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| diamond67 |
Posted - 14/08/2005 : 16:33:37
Hello Forum - I am trying to establish if there are any other angry owners of a canal timeshare with Ethos (was renamed from Cascadas) who have received a letter telling us that they are putting a levy charge on us for £299.00 - over and above the management fees already paid... with a further levy of £68.52 in august next year.
Quite simply - we do not have this kind of money lying around. The leeter arrived on Friday 12th August - with the invoice and letter accompanying dated the 1st August - quite clearly BACKDATED...
This letter and accompanying doucumentation says that unless the money is paid - they will quite simply seize the timeshare and sell it to raise the cash they need.
It also says that - despite the fact that we were told the boats were new by the agent we purchased from - that the boats were in fact second hand.
I may not have the cash for the levy at present - however I do have legal insurance and am seeking legal advice on the matter.
By the way - if anyone reading this is thinking of complaining to the OTE - I would suggest saving the postage. We did this some years ago on first discovering that timeshares are not an investment - (the purpose for which we were sold one.. and we simply referred back to the sales company. NOTHING was done.
Luckily my legal insurance will at least give em the legal advise I need.
Oh by the way - if the timeshare is taken and sold and they still don't have enough money - the letter and documentation also says that they will taken people to court to get the extra to cover the debts that the management company has incurred.......... |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Joffbridge |
Posted - 06/03/2008 : 22:07:10
Unfortunately, there appear to be very few laws which prevent unscrupulous persons setting themselves up as Company Directors, opening and closing companies willy-nilly, milking the assets as 'Directors Fees', letting the company go bust leaving its creditors high and dry, then setting up a new company and continuing the same business, albeit dressed up as something slightly different, and hardly pausing in their stride. I've known some such people who have set up and shut down a couple of dozen companies in this way. They are probably quite secure in their own lives, and sleep comfortably at night, but the rest of us are left to sit on the sidelines and watch them watch us feed their chosen lifestyle, and probably guffaw to boot. 'What goes round tends to come round' |
| toothpaste |
Posted - 05/02/2008 : 15:07:40
I have posted a number of times on this website raising concerns and asking questions whilst at the same time keeping in regular correspondence with Mark. Some of these correspondence have been quite demanding of him and following a telephone conversation which Mark initiated to me on Saturday afternoon we have come to an agreement which given my situation and holiday desires has come to an equitable conclusion. I will not talk money as that is personal between Mark and I unless of course he wishes to divulge the detail.
My situatiuon was different to others I guess in that I came to Ethos via Clearwater from whom I purchased my boat 10+years ago, at a price that I thought was reasonable given the access to RCI with whom I could swap to and get the 5 of us, at the time, away to some pretty nice resorts. After a few years I was approached to cede my week into Choices (levels) which allowed me to split my 6 berth 1 week accomodation into potentially accomodation for 2 over a 3 week period. This suited our circumstances well as children growing up did not wish to come with mum & dad, their loss.
Late in 2006 RCI approached me as they wished to get rid of Choices members due to dwindling numbers and they offered to swap it for 38000 points with a an additional 10000 sweetener for 2007, at no cost to me whatsoever for the 2007 year. This I accepted as in the interim I had bought 80000 Infiniti points and was finding them a good way to holiday. All this time I still had the boat to use or swap which to be honest without I hope not upsetting the boaters amongst you, I was never going to use. Not me I am afraid.
When the disaffiliation came up I like many was suspicious and put out to think I would have to pay RCI for my points and memebership and pay Ethos an ever increasing management fee, it was at this point I got involved in correspondence with this site and Mark.
As stated earlier I think I have resolved my issues in the best interest of all parties and have walked away from the boat and with the Infiniti & RCI points to spend, which given my situation of not having to holiday in peak periods, has allowed me so far to take 2 weeks in Madeira at the Miramar & 2 weeks in the Algarve at the Oura View Beach Club with stiil sufficient points for 2 more off peak weeks in say December.
Finally I have seen a lot of mud slinging going on towards Mark and I have in one form or another been guilty of some harsh words but when you get to speak to him and hear his side of the story and the issues he faces I think some of it is not totally justified. Everyone's situation is different pick up the phone and talk you maybe surprised with the outcome. |
| tillo |
Posted - 27/11/2007 : 16:42:12
Roy I am glad that you have acknowledged that you didnt even buy from us but windrush marketing, who are still in evesham now called Holiday Oppurtunities give them a ring. It would seem your gripe is with them as I can see your contract clearly says between you and windrush, not our agent the company who sold you the timeshare |
| roy.hawthorne |
Posted - 26/11/2007 : 21:08:15
For the record Mark, I was fully paid upto 2006 and can provide your receipt for proof. I withheld 2007 management fees and levy as I did not want to waste more money having been sold a £9995.00 week boat by your main representative (as described on the back of your brochure) Windrush marketing, until I had an opportunity to take the issue to court. However, as you were well aware, Windrush Marketing are now dissolved. In fact, your other 'main representative' (as described on the back of your brochure) 'Points World' is also dissolved. Therefore, seeking evidence of mis selling has been difficult, but I am confident that evidence of mis management and breach of contract by Ethos is more available.
I do not profess to be the voice of members, only the voice of a disgruntled owner (recently repossessed)that wants to let other owners be aware that if they read the small print on the back of your contracts, they are eligible for the financial support of Ethos for the next 30 years! The statement that 'your management fee will not rise above rpi' is rubbish, as whenever you require more money, you have demonstrated that you will issue a levy.
In your defence for Windrush (your main representative) selling an old boat 'beck' for £9995.00 is that you did not sell it- that is true - BUT you do receive a copy of the sale details (as shown on the bottom of the sale form)and Windrush are advertised as your main representative. I held back my court action as you issued action for non payment of management fees and it did not matter to me how I got to court. Since you have withdrawn your action, it is obviously upto me to put up or shut up! See you soon. |
| tillo |
Posted - 22/11/2007 : 02:58:32
Like Mr Hawthorne you also have had your Timeshare cancelled for non payment of Management Fees, most users on this site know we have to pay our annual fees.
I leave the readers to come to thier own conclusions, sounds like non payers convention..
quote:
Originally posted by HUGH FRANKLIN
Hi, I've just found this group whist searching for info on Ethos & RCI's decision to dissaffiliate them! Like so many of you, we went along to an" RCI-Pointsworld " meeting in Coventry last year, since we wanted to add to our points portfolio through exchanging our week in the Algarve for points. Having been assure by Mark that our week was unmarketable, we agreed to a part-exchange with a week on a boat for a "grand". Later we found that ownership for points was being offered this year for £999.00, thus Mark has profited by getting a week in the Algarve for - £1.00 ! When challenged with this whist querying the levy, Frances wrote that this was nothing to do with Ethos Narrowboats being to do with Ethos Pointsworld! Our contention is that the week was worth more than the levy anyway, in the unlikely event of us going to court, we'll see what the judge thinks.
We don't want to walk, especialy as our family & freinds so enjoyed our week mudplugging this year, I'm going to try Watchdog as well!
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| tillo |
Posted - 22/11/2007 : 02:48:44
Roy
You have been withholding your Management Fee you havent paid one since Feb 2005, and you wonder why your have been repo'd for none payment of Management Fees. You comment about levy payments you have never paid us one unlike the other members on this site.
You talk as if you are a member of Ethos your timeshare rights where cancelled for non payment of TWO YEARS worth of Management Fees (not levy payments), so how you can represent members when you arent one baffles me, in fact members who dont pay are the reason why we have things like Levy's.
quote:
Originally posted by roy.hawthorne
Hi ELLA,
You are absolutely correct about having a good case against Ethos for withholding 'management fees' as we also have a detailed account of the whole mess. As we are getting more names together now, and we have had our boat taken from us by Ethos, we are preparing for a claim to recover our costs and as we should be able to prove gross mis management of our 'management fee', the more people that we collate, the better. Thank you for your email.
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| tillo |
Posted - 22/11/2007 : 02:28:47
I watch your posts with interest, to date I see no mention of RCI in this at all and as for the Member who wants to Google Map my house well what can I say,you are sad. If anyone has any real questions about buisness them I am happy to answer them for you, in fact our members area on the web site is rammed full of answers and facts. I think if you look behind this disaffiltion its a story of the corporate giant and the little boy's.
RCI are even offering members Pure Points at 71p per hundred what does SueB think of that? Lot less than current members are paying!
For Ethos members who are in the weeks system they get a FREE credit every year for as long as they like, as long as they pay the RCI Membership Fee.
You wonder why our members are surrendering the timeshare with the RCI offers they dont need to own a timeshare...thin edge of the wedge?
So far RCI have diverted into themselves around £200,000 every year in Management Fee once due to our members clubs!! and they run which resort with overheads??? urrrrrrr NONE.
So disaflition does pay for RCI, I heard from Loch Rannoch owners today it happened to them and I hear its about to happen to 5 other's what a great way to increase your income!!!
There is quite a lot of accusations on this forum perhaps you would like to bring some proof to the table, or is this site going to be another Crimeshare, full of complete rubbish and personal slurs, I hope not.
Mark |
| Joffbridge |
Posted - 19/11/2007 : 20:22:11
I really wish now that I hadn't claimed on my house insurance. For the easiest way out, they supplied the funds for me to pay the 'levy', which I used instead to surrender. I'm out with no more liabilities to these crooks, but I now wish I'd hung on and let them sue. There's just no way they could have sued us all, they don't even have a clause in the contract they could use, and as soon as Ella gave a good defence, they backed off! Surprise surprise! But of course they were relying on the fear factor, most of us have never been in a courtroom and don 't relish the prospect. It's quite obvious that this lot are going down the pipe fast, it's only a matter of when. I wonder what the directors' own house looks like out on the west coast of Wales, my guess is that's where most of our money went. Anyone can do what I did - I went on the Companies House website and paid £1 to find out the directors of all the related companies, and of course Mark and Fran feature prominently in all of them; it also gives their home address. I've tried Googlemapping their home to see where our money went, but that doesn't get in close enough. |
| roy.hawthorne |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 12:30:09
Hi ELLA,
You are absolutely correct about having a good case against Ethos for withholding 'management fees' as we also have a detailed account of the whole mess. As we are getting more names together now, and we have had our boat taken from us by Ethos, we are preparing for a claim to recover our costs and as we should be able to prove gross mis management of our 'management fee', the more people that we collate, the better. Thank you for your email.
|
| roy.hawthorne |
Posted - 08/11/2007 : 19:19:44
Hi,
I don't know if I am one of the first to receive a repossession order for non payment of annual management fee but it arrived today!
We are still hoping to meet Ethos in court to defend action taken by Ethos to recover this years levy/ management fee. We have not paid as we were conned into purchasing a new boat becky for £9995.00/1 week by Windrush Marketinmg acting as agents for Stratford Court/Ethos. Not only was it later found to be an old boat, the management company had failed in their duties to maintain it to a presentable condition. So, we are preparing a counter claim against Ethos, for failing to manage funding appropriately, and akllowing their agents to make false claims. It is always helpful in these situations to gather details of people in similar situations past or present to present to the courts. If you would like to contribute any information, please feel free to call me - Roy 07747 060615 or email me your details and I will contact you- roy.hawthorne@tesco.net
I have also approached watchdog and a number of publications as other people need to be aware of the whole mess that they can get themselves into dealing with certyain companies and individuals. |
| Suebe |
Posted - 02/11/2007 : 19:14:08
quote:
Originally posted by HUGH FRANKLIN
Hi, I've just found this group whist searching for info on Ethos & RCI's decision to dissaffiliate them! Like so many of you, we went along to an" RCI-Pointsworld " meeting in Coventry last year, since we wanted to add to our points portfolio through exchanging our week in the Algarve for points. Having been assure by Mark that our week was unmarketable, we agreed to a part-exchange with a week on a boat for a "grand". Later we found that ownership for points was being offered this year for £999.00, thus Mark has profited by getting a week in the Algarve for - £1.00 ! When challenged with this whist querying the levy, Frances wrote that this was nothing to do with Ethos Narrowboats being to do with Ethos Pointsworld! Our contention is that the week was worth more than the levy anyway, in the unlikely event of us going to court, we'll see what the judge thinks.
We don't want to walk, especialy as our family & freinds so enjoyed our week mudplugging this year, I'm going to try Watchdog as well!
Hugh, I have sent you a private message in relation to your posting.
Sue |
| Joffbridge |
Posted - 02/11/2007 : 10:55:22
Ethos gone bust yet? Can't be long. |
| HUGH FRANKLIN |
Posted - 27/10/2007 : 21:40:45
Hi, I've just found this group whist searching for info on Ethos & RCI's decision to dissaffiliate them! Like so many of you, we went along to an" RCI-Pointsworld " meeting in Coventry last year, since we wanted to add to our points portfolio through exchanging our week in the Algarve for points. Having been assure by Mark that our week was unmarketable, we agreed to a part-exchange with a week on a boat for a "grand". Later we found that ownership for points was being offered this year for £999.00, thus Mark has profited by getting a week in the Algarve for - £1.00 ! When challenged with this whist querying the levy, Frances wrote that this was nothing to do with Ethos Narrowboats being to do with Ethos Pointsworld! Our contention is that the week was worth more than the levy anyway, in the unlikely event of us going to court, we'll see what the judge thinks.
We don't want to walk, especialy as our family & freinds so enjoyed our week mudplugging this year, I'm going to try Watchdog as well! |
| ami-man |
Posted - 02/10/2007 : 11:09:08
Hi,
I have only just looked at this topic since trying to find information on Ethos Narrowboats.
I swopped one of my banked weeks with RCI for a holiday with Ethos, this was booked on the 18/6/2007 and the holiday was to have been on the 13/10/2007.
RCI phoned last week to say that my holiday with Ethos had been canceled and that they would not be dealing with Ethos till later in the year.
One can assume that with RCI having over 800 weeks with Ethos, they have pulled the plug.
RCI did manage to get me another week on a narrow boat holiday, but they only had the one.
The operator they made the booking with told me they had been snowed under with late bookings.
Regards
Alan Hood
ami-man |
| maxi P |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 10:44:40
The trouble with the situation is that all the complaints and objections are only monitored by the office and the true number of objectors will never be known by anyone else. If only all objectors were to complain to the trustees (FNTC) then maybe they would keep an honest total number of complaints and then they could call the AGM. The number of owners who do not even know this site exists is quite large and so most of them feel on their own. on the other hand the trustees are only looking after their interests and liability limits going from experience and are not really there for the owners at all. |
| Joffbridge |
Posted - 02/09/2007 : 19:42:59
Has anyone had their threatened 'court papers' yet? I no longer have a vested interest, but my curiosity remains high as to the clause in the contract which allows for unlimited liability for members. I don't believe it exists, but we all like to sleep easy at nights so all of us will usually take the least confrontational route out of a problem. And that, of course, is what's hoped for! Pity, it means there is never a resolution, and next time the finances are in a mess (trust me, experience tells me they will be, and probably sooner rather than later), they'll be round with the 'or else' again. |
| Joffbridge |
Posted - 27/08/2007 : 21:37:33
My Thanks to the directors of Ethos Narrowboats, Timeshare Direct Group, et al, for the Fearful Trouble they've gone to in allowing me to surrender my rights of occupancy and associated RCI Points. It's only cost me in total about £2300,so that's just over £130 a month since I signed in March 2006, although I did get about 3 weeks' car hire so that's not bad value. At least I can now Make Tracks into the sunset, and Find Troublefree holidays elsewhere, in the certain knowledge that I have limited my losses, because I shall avoid having to pay next year's Levy. I have also learned the hard way that to trust ANYONE in the timeshare industry is a recipe for personal financial ruin. Enjoy your narrowboating. |
| tillo |
Posted - 07/08/2007 : 13:48:59
Paul
You are indeed part of Chirk, there are five schemes we manage Chirk, Stratford, Evesham, London & Oxford, all have the sames rules as each other but where in seperate locations. When the 2005 levy had to be done there was 43 requests and objections when the levy was £299.
Ethos |
| Joffbridge |
Posted - 03/08/2007 : 20:14:15
quote:
Originally posted by tillo
We surrender, in every sense.
We'll send you 175.99 plus whatever paperwork you want, then we can get on with our lives. Just please tell us where and what to sign, and where to send that plus our cheque, so we can draw a line
John and Dorothy Baines
Fordingbridge
That e-mail was sent BEFORE I did my Companies House research. Having done that research (see my posting of 19th July) we have decided we owe Ethos nothing.
Incidentally, I take this opportunity to apologise publicly for using the expression 'demanding money with menaces'. I now learn that this applies ONLY to threats of physical violence, and not to the threat of court action. Accordingly, I withdraw that accusation unreservedly. |
| tillo |
Posted - 03/08/2007 : 12:33:12
I am sorry Sandy but you are wrong and just recd the figures from rci i was under quoting ALSO.
2007 Management Fee Price Per Point New Bandings
Band Points Ownership £ Fee Per 100 EXAMPLE PURE COST
A 12,000 - 22,500 GBP 0.0162 1.62 6500 £105.30
B 22,501 - 37,500 GBP 0.0133 1.33 6500 £86.45
C 37,501- 52,500 GBP 0.0123 1.23 6500 £79.95
D 52,501 - 75,000 GBP 0.0115 1.15 6500 £74.75
E 75,501 - 105,000GBP 0.0107 1.07 6500 £69.55
F 105,000 + GBP 0.0099 0.99 6500 £64.35
The fee is calculated per each pure point owned
You pay £40.44 IF YOU OWNED 105,000 Points You would still be £23.91 better off and if you own 12,000 to 22,500 you would be £64.86.
When launched BAND F was £.64p now £.99 an increase in 4 years of nearly 50%, our Man Fees have gone up by 9.9%.
I await your comments.
ETHOS
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| tillo |
Posted - 03/08/2007 : 12:19:49
I have emailed RCI POINTS today and will post the reply on exactly what the Pure Point Management Fee is, which is charged in bands owned, I will post it on the forum
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| sandy |
Posted - 02/08/2007 : 16:57:19
As I understand it, Pure Points mean that no weeks are owned, therefore the points maintenance fee is all that is paid. I am required to pay maintenance on 3 resorts as well as on the points I bought from Ethos!If I owned pure points it would be much cheaper. |
| tillo |
Posted - 02/08/2007 : 10:51:23
To put into context
JoffBridge Annual Man Fee £190
Christine Annual Man Fee £118
Martin Annual Man Fee £40.44
United Annual Man Fee £40.44
all based on the point owned, compare this to PURE RCI points less than half what they charge. Proablly the lowest Man Fee in the UK !
The support from NON POINTS members has been superb because they see the value in there week rather than the slowly dissapearing point system, last year we HAD to take back over 800 weeks that WHERE in the points system. It should also be noted that when it started RCI Points Man Fee was 60p-£1 per 1,000 (2001) Now 90p-£1.60 (2006) a bit more than the RPI, so if the above had joined via pure points they would be paying much much more.
Cant see one Timeshare week owner on this forum, only the points members, two of whom we have agreed to surrender, who agreed then changed there minds.
Happy to reslove any of your problems just call me FREE 0800 317377.
Mark... |
| tillo |
Posted - 02/08/2007 : 10:33:34
quote:
Originally posted by Joffbridge
I was promised 'court papers being issued today' last Tuesday 24th July. Not only are their finances in a mess, their admin generally appears to be in a state of neglect!
EMAIL TO ETHOS
We surrender, in every sense.
We'll send you 175.99 plus whatever paperwork you want, then we can get on with our lives. Just please tell us where and what to sign, and where to send that plus our cheque, so we can draw a line
John and Dorothy Baines
Fordingbridge
|
| acer |
Posted - 01/08/2007 : 17:57:07
Presumably these 'Court Papers' were some sort of threat in respect of breach of contract on your part. Many people have been threatened in this way, but no one has reported that they have actually received such papers. However, it is not a pleasant feeling having the possibility of this happening, hence it would be sensible to involve your legal representation at an early stage. |
| Joffbridge |
Posted - 31/07/2007 : 13:26:33
I was promised 'court papers being issued today' last Tuesday 24th July. Not only are their finances in a mess, their admin generally appears to be in a state of neglect! |
| acer |
Posted - 28/07/2007 : 09:13:07
If you are contesting the Rules and Regulations of the Scheme Documentation, this would normally lie in a Civil action rather than take recourse to Criminal Law ie the Theft Act 1968.
Also the standard of proof is lower in Civil Law (balance of probablility) than Criminal Law (beyond reasonable doubt). |
| acer |
Posted - 28/07/2007 : 08:42:49
It is quite normal for Legal Expenses to be outsourced. I have used DAS in the past and found the service very good.
S 8 of the Theft Act 1968 refers to 'Robbery' and whilst emotively would seem appropriate, does not really apply to this situation.
s 17 False Accounting or s 19 False Statements by Company Directors may be more appropriate, but you would need to obtain legal opinion. |
| Joffbridge |
Posted - 27/07/2007 : 17:43:04
Is anyone else considering claiming on their house insurance, legal protection bit? I happen to be with Halifax, but the legal bit is outsourced to DAS in Bristol, I suspect many insurance companies would use that same outsourcing. So, if more of you go down that route, DAS is going to be inundated, which just might make someone sit up and take notice. I've also gone to RCI again, pointing them to this website, if they trouble to take a look, they might just realise that their name ain't going to look so good when this all comes out. |
| Joffbridge |
Posted - 26/07/2007 : 22:09:49
Whichever way you slice it, it defies natural justice for Ethos, or anyone else for that matter, to issue whatever invoice they like whenever they like and give us ordinary mortals no option but to pay, and quick! We might as well all of us have given them a fistful of blank cheques. Then whenever the directors each want a new Merc, or a holiday, or a swimming pool at home................ At that rate, they effectively have a licence to print money, only the Bank of England can do that! (Apart from a couple of Scottish banks) I know it's scary, and tempting to take the easy way out, but then how much will next year's Levy be? Could be ten times as much. And the year after that? This has just got to be stopped now! I'm still awaiting my Court Papers, which were supposed to be being prepared on Tuesday, when I get them I'll add a new comment here. 'Watch this space..............' |
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Levy Charge - Ethos/Cascadas? Anyone Else Angry