[Video] Silverpoint & RP Scam exposed

Started by Alan Taylor, November 01, 2012, 10:01:36

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Alan Taylor



Willself


martyboy02

Have just watched the video, good work by nam Yuse who ever you are.

Wish I had the same technology when i got Maria Hidalgos confession that Anfi Sales Staff exaggerate.

I realised that the RDO was funded by Timeshare companies, but didn't realise that Board members were actual owners or partners in Timeshare companies. Very educational.

Well done again. More people should do the same, wish I had been one of them.
Survivor Of Anfi scammers, willing to help others

Mavo

Quote from: martyboy02 on November 01, 2012, 11:04:31


I realised that the RDO was funded by Timeshare companies, but didn't realise that Board members were actual owners or partners in Timeshare companies. Very educational.




Of course RDO ( The Resort Development Organisation) is run by timeshare companies and the board consists of people who work within the industry.
  TATOC is the only organisation run by the consumers and the board contains no employees of any timshare company. As an analogy, TATOC has to talk to the RDO in much the same way as Arthur Scargill had to talk to the Coal Board in the seventies. How else are we, as consumers, allowed to have a voice?
  Make no mistake. We at TATOC are in bed with nobody. We are in discussion and dialogue with them and anybody else who we feel can improve the industry on behalf of the consumers.

Willself

Excellent! MAVO.

Working to-wards a brighter future must be the By-Word!! More Power to  TATOC..and the Consumer!!

martyboy02

I fully appreciate and appauld the work of Mavo and TATOC.

Having conversed with the RDO in the past i know how awkward they can be, I don't envy you and wish you all the best.

Let us hope that TATOC is more resilient, forthwright and succesful as an organisation than the RDO.

I have read the links provided by Mavo (Many thanks) I can have a fair degree of confidence in what TATOC could achieve.

As a general query, could I as a former timeshare owner and as someone who as a lay person still assisiting aggrieved Anfi owners, join TATOC, just to keep up to speed with what is happening and changes to legislation in the Timeshare world?
Survivor Of Anfi scammers, willing to help others

Mavo

Quote from: martyboy02 on November 01, 2012, 14:40:36
I fully appreciate and appauld the work of Mavo and TATOC.

Having conversed with the RDO in the past i know how awkward they can be, I don't envy you and wish you all the best.

Let us hope that TATOC is more resilient, forthwright and succesful as an organisation than the RDO.

I have read the links provided by Mavo (Many thanks) I can have a fair degree of confidence in what TATOC could achieve.

As a general query, could I as a former timeshare owner and as someone who as a lay person still assisiting aggrieved Anfi owners, join TATOC, just to keep up to speed with what is happening and changes to legislation in the Timeshare world?






First indications are that individual membership is currently restricted to timeshare owners.
However I do understand where you are coming from on this and so I will ask the question.
It may well be tomorrow before I can get the answer so please bear with me.


You now have your answer and it is in the affirmative
 

barca_boy

Absolutely priceless!!!

I'm sure that rp were accredited members of tatoc were they not????

So if we are pointing the finger at the RDO which stands for resort development organisation ( most people would presume they are funded etc by resorts and would make sense why rp would be members) the. Surely tatoc , the organisation that is there to protect consumers is the one that should be under fire for giving a company like silverpoint / rp their backing!!!!!

Let's not throw stones in glass houses!

Mavo

What this surely proves is that TATOC really is working.

Resort Properties is no longer I believe.
Silverpoint has taken over and the practices no longer occur. Silverpoint have also settled most of those who were mis-sold  by RP and they have also signed up to the TATOC code of conduct.
What TATOC cannot do is to victimise developers for past misdemeanours. We can and do, via the code of conduct try to stamp out future problems.

barca_boy

Mavis, my point if you read my post carefully is that RP WERE tatoc accredited, but these practices went on...

As per the video in this thread.

I was merely making the point that we shouldn't blame one industry body and not an other, if indeed we are going to blame anyone.

Sandy Grey

Mayo.  You are either being disingenuous  or you have been misled.  I suspect the latter.

1.   Silverpoint continued the very same "investment" fraud for which RP  was so rightly castigated.
2.   Silverpoint have, partly, recompensed  a few of those who were defrauded by RP.  The majority of victims have not been recompensed -  which two on-going sets of court cases (UK and Tenerife) demonstrate. 
3.   The Silverpoint sales team is exactly the same team that ran the RP frauds - both lead by  Mark Cushway (temporarily indisposed) who was CEO of both RP and Silverpoint. (leopards & spots !)
4.   TATOC should be well aware that they have been funded by the proceeds of  fraud.  And  that they  continue to be funded by fraud. 

Mavo

Quote from: barca_boy on November 02, 2012, 12:45:27
Mavis, my point if you read my post carefully is that RP WERE tatoc accredited, but these practices went on...

As per the video in this thread.

I was merely making the point that we shouldn't blame one industry body and not an other, if indeed we are going to blame anyone.


Firstly I am not Mavis.

Secondly.   I have conntacted TATOC and asked some questions . As I have stated earlier this first few months will be very much a learning curve for me, not just for what we are trying to achieve in the future but also I need to know a little about the past in order to answer questions such as this.
From a conversation within the last 90mins my understanding is this.
  The video is a very old one.
RP were affiliated to TATOC and RDO.
RDO have no resorts under their wing or in their organisation.
RP were in RDO because they were developers.
  As I understand it RP were hauled over the coals by both RDO and TATOC with regards to the sale of one particular product.
They were about to be removed from TATOC when a management buyout occurred. The new company, Silverpoint applied to become affiliated with TATOC and they gave assurances that the product causing the difficulties would be removed . It is now no longer sold.
Silverpoint also gave assurances to TATOC that those with grievances surrounding that product would have their cases looked at personally by Mark Cushway the new CEO of Silverpoint, I do remember Mark Cushway coming onto timesharetalk and stating this. This has occurred and my understanding is that most of those affected have made satisfactory arrangements with Mark Cushway and his organisation and there are a very few only left to come to a similar agreement.
None of this would have happened had they been outside of TATOC and the product may well have continued to be sold.
It would be oh so easy to remove them and cast them aside to carry on but is it not better to get them to agree to a code of conduct and be within a body where that conduct can be monitored.
TATOC has the power to remove affiliates who do not abide by that strict code of conduct and that power has already been enforced in 2012.
   

barca_boy

Mavo,

I think tatoc are a fantastic organisation and every month they prevent timeshare owners from being scammed. My hat goes off to Harry taylor and the work he and others put in to protect the consumer!

My point was its no good to point the blame solely at the RDO . This wasn't meant to undermine the work and effort of tatoc!!

I have met many tatoc board members and their passion to the cause is a credit to tatoc.

Do not take my post in the wrong way!

I haven't a personal issue with RP or silverpoint and would not suggest they were or were not doing certain things. That is for others to comment

Mavo

Quote from: barca_boy on November 02, 2012, 16:11:35
Mavo,

I think tatoc are a fantastic organisation and every month they prevent timeshare owners from being scammed. My hat goes off to Harry taylor and the work he and others put in to protect the consumer!

My point was its no good to point the blame solely at the RDO . This wasn't meant to undermine the work and effort of tatoc!!

I have met many tatoc board members and their passion to the cause is a credit to tatoc.

Do not take my post in the wrong way!

I haven't a personal issue with RP or silverpoint and would not suggest they were or were not doing certain things. That is for others to comment


I certainly havn`t taken your post the wrong way and I most certainly havn`t pointed any blame at RDO. In my response to you I have pointed out that both RDO and TATOC had felt the need to chastise RP and in fact TATOC were very concerned re  their affiliation before the management takeover.
At this point I can only ask the questions and reply using the answers I am given.
If those answers are not what others want to see, or contrary to what they believe then I am sorry but I have to take the TATOC view of events that have occurred in the past.
With regards to Sandy Greys points. Nobody at TATOC is aware of any UK case. Acording to my information the Tenerife case is not ongoing. It was thrown out. Any of the sales team (very few if any is my understanding) that remained after the buyout have been retrained. Mark Cushway remains but the management team that surrounds him are not the same team that were with RP.
RP/Silverpoint do not fund TATOC as such.
TATOC funding currently comes from the resort committees and the Timeshare Trust. The committees currently represent 440.000 members and this is growing as more resorts are joining all the time.
Other revenue is gained from 12 Gold or Platinum affiliated members and a further group currently numbering 26 who hold affiliations. Each affiliated member has to sign up to a strict code of conduct which TATOC can review at any time. This Code of Conduct can be viewed on the TATOC website. The 12 Gold or Platinum members (and it is restricted to 12 ) each have a banner on the website and they are allowed to use the TATOC logo on their literature.
If TATOC are made aware of any member not adhering to the code of conduct then they will and do investigate and if found to be working outside the code then appropriate action is taken.

Can I take this opportunity to suggest that we all have a look at the TATOC Code of Conduct and if we come across current failures to adhere to that code by any affiliated member then we report it on the TATOC Forum here on timesharetalk. I will then personally see to it that it goes to the appropriate people in TATOC for investigation and I will be pushing hard for answers in fact I will do more than that I will push to be one of the people doing the investigating. This is important for consumers and developers alike as it gives us the consumer better protection from mis selling and it gives the legitimate developer the knowledge that he is competing for business on a level playing field.     

Alan Taylor

Quote from: Mavo on November 02, 2012, 14:49:57
Quote from: barca_boy on November 02, 2012, 12:45:27
Mavis, my point if you read my post carefully is that RP WERE tatoc accredited, but these practices went on...

As per the video in this thread.

I was merely making the point that we shouldn't blame one industry body and not an other, if indeed we are going to blame anyone.


Firstly I am not Mavis.

Secondly.   I have conntacted TATOC and asked some questions . As I have stated earlier this first few months will be very much a learning curve for me, not just for what we are trying to achieve in the future but also I need to know a little about the past in order to answer questions such as this.
From a conversation within the last 90mins my understanding is this.
  The video is a very old one.
RP were affiliated to TATOC and RDO.
RDO have no resorts under their wing or in their organisation.
RP were in RDO because they were developers.
  As I understand it RP were hauled over the coals by both RDO and TATOC with regards to the sale of one particular product.
They were about to be removed from TATOC when a management buyout occurred. The new company, Silverpoint applied to become affiliated with TATOC and they gave assurances that the product causing the difficulties would be removed . It is now no longer sold.
Silverpoint also gave assurances to TATOC that those with grievances surrounding that product would have their cases looked at personally by Mark Cushway the new CEO of Silverpoint, I do remember Mark Cushway coming onto timesharetalk and stating this. This has occurred and my understanding is that most of those affected have made satisfactory arrangements with Mark Cushway and his organisation and there are a very few only left to come to a similar agreement.
None of this would have happened had they been outside of TATOC and the product may well have continued to be sold.
It would be oh so easy to remove them and cast them aside to carry on but is it not better to get them to agree to a code of conduct and be within a body where that conduct can be monitored.
TATOC has the power to remove affiliates who do not abide by that strict code of conduct and that power has already been enforced in 2012.




Mavo the video is timestamped september this year

Mavo

Quote from: Alan Taylor on November 02, 2012, 20:02:55
Quote from: Mavo on November 02, 2012, 14:49:57
Quote from: barca_boy on November 02, 2012, 12:45:27
Mavis, my point if you read my post carefully is that RP WERE tatoc accredited, but these practices went on...

As per the video in this thread.

I was merely making the point that we shouldn't blame one industry body and not an other, if indeed we are going to blame anyone.


Firstly I am not Mavis.

Secondly.   I have conntacted TATOC and asked some questions . As I have stated earlier this first few months will be very much a learning curve for me, not just for what we are trying to achieve in the future but also I need to know a little about the past in order to answer questions such as this.
From a conversation within the last 90mins my understanding is this.
  The video is a very old one.
RP were affiliated to TATOC and RDO.
RDO have no resorts under their wing or in their organisation.
RP were in RDO because they were developers.
  As I understand it RP were hauled over the coals by both RDO and TATOC with regards to the sale of one particular product.
They were about to be removed from TATOC when a management buyout occurred. The new company, Silverpoint applied to become affiliated with TATOC and they gave assurances that the product causing the difficulties would be removed . It is now no longer sold.
Silverpoint also gave assurances to TATOC that those with grievances surrounding that product would have their cases looked at personally by Mark Cushway the new CEO of Silverpoint, I do remember Mark Cushway coming onto timesharetalk and stating this. This has occurred and my understanding is that most of those affected have made satisfactory arrangements with Mark Cushway and his organisation and there are a very few only left to come to a similar agreement.
None of this would have happened had they been outside of TATOC and the product may well have continued to be sold.
It would be oh so easy to remove them and cast them aside to carry on but is it not better to get them to agree to a code of conduct and be within a body where that conduct can be monitored.
TATOC has the power to remove affiliates who do not abide by that strict code of conduct and that power has already been enforced in 2012.




Mavo the video is timestamped september this year


I am fully aware that the video is timestamped. I am also aware that the conversation on the video is about mis selling by Resort Properties and Resort Properties were no longer in existence in September of this year. My posts remain the same. All the video shows is that a current employee cannot justify the sales tactics of Resort Properties and Mark Cushway  at that time  Nowhere does it say that the tactic continues at Silverpoint.
It has been suggested that a leopard does not change it`s spots and to that end TATOC closely monitors all its affiliates.
I will say once more that it is better to have them working within a code of conduct than outside it. If they work within the code and then transgress then we can expell and expose them. If they work outside the code by not being an affiliate then we have no control over their actions.

* FYI Alberto Garcia worked for the Madrid Police not Gran Canaria


Mavo

Quote from: Alan Taylor on November 02, 2012, 20:33:42
Hi Mavo,

See this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oNdi4NT4O8


Hi Alan
I have a little trouble hearing conversations via youtube on my laptop as the speakers are really rubbish so I will have to power up the wind up model to view and listen. This does take some time as it wants to update a million programs. Bear with me.

Mavo

Quote from: Mavo on November 02, 2012, 20:41:55
Quote from: Alan Taylor on November 02, 2012, 20:33:42
Hi Mavo,

See this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oNdi4NT4O8


Hi Alan
I have a little trouble hearing conversations via youtube on my laptop as the speakers are really rubbish so I will have to power up the wind up model to view and listen. This does take some time as it wants to update a million programs. Bear with me.


I have had a look at the video and it is a little difficult to follow but it seemed to me that a plan was being devised to get the money back within a period of time. I did not see mention of any costs involved to execute this plan. Have I missed something?
My wife watched with me and also found it difficult to follow who was saying what and read the added words at the same time. I will have to go over it 2 or 3 times I think.

Mavo

I have watched this and listened to it again and all I can see is a guy trying to resolve a problem that occurred when Resort Properties had a hand on the helm.

This is an attempt to get monies back for the client and prevent court proceedings against Resort Properties, because of the Silverpoint connection I suspect.

I cannot see where it proves that the former practice continues to this day.
Unless of course there is another video where it is explained that further cities or islands, or whatever they are called, would be needed to recover any shortfalls and there would be a cost to the client to obtain these.

All we seem to be saying is that sometime in the past mis- selling did take place and that efforts are currently (september) being made to resolve matters.

So where are we trying to go on this? 

* When will I get the message that occurred has two r`s

Powered by EzPortal