TATOC Affiliated Companies

Started by hal540uk, December 26, 2012, 14:55:22

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Mavo

Carolinian your answer is again below.
First and foremost, TATOC cannot publicly comment on any enquiries, sanctions or investigations it makes into the activities of any of its affiliated companies. This is policy built on legal advice.
What it can and does do is to make enquiries through various means when allegations are made about affiliated companies and this is exactly what it does. This takes place privately out of legal necessity.





Carolinian

The main reason why investigations are kept quiet is not to tip off the target so that they will cover up what they are doing.  That is why when Harry decides to launch this ''investigation'' of The Bullfrog and his companies by a very public challenge to me in this thread, something just did not smell right about the whole thing.  When he finally got around to PM'ing me it was days later.

I would hope that TATOC has an ongoing investigation of Silverpoint, and sends in an undercover team to one of their presentations wearing a wire so they can record some of the things that have been reported on these boards by some who have had experience with that organization. Or get a member of Silverpoint to attend a ''members update'' wearing a wire.  I will be pleasantly surprised if that comes about, but given the attitude relative to The Bullfrog, I am not holding my breath!

Quote from: Mavo on January 09, 2013, 21:01:08
Carolinian your answer is again below.
First and foremost, TATOC cannot publicly comment on any enquiries, sanctions or investigations it makes into the activities of any of its affiliated companies. This is policy built on legal advice.
What it can and does do is to make enquiries through various means when allegations are made about affiliated companies and this is exactly what it does. This takes place privately out of legal necessity.
 

Mavo

First and foremost, TATOC cannot publicly comment on any enquiries, sanctions or investigations it makes into the activities of any of its affiliated companies. This is policy built on legal advice.
What it can and does do is to make enquiries through various means when allegations are made about affiliated companies and this is exactly what it does. This takes place privately out of legal necessity.

Carolinian

Quote from: Mavo on January 09, 2013, 21:21:54
First and foremost, TATOC cannot publicly comment on any enquiries, sanctions or investigations it makes into the activities of any of its affiliated companies. This is policy built on legal advice.
What it can and does do is to make enquiries through various means when allegations are made about affiliated companies and this is exactly what it does. This takes place privately out of legal necessity.


Oh, and is that why Harry launched this alleged investigation of The Bullfrog and his companies by starting this very public thread?
 

Mavo

First and foremost, TATOC cannot publicly comment on any enquiries, sanctions or investigations it makes into the activities of any of its affiliated companies. This is policy built on legal advice.
What it can and does do is to make enquiries through various means when allegations are made about affiliated companies and this is exactly what it does. This takes place privately out of legal necessity.

Carolinian

Quote from: Mavo on January 09, 2013, 21:35:16
First and foremost, TATOC cannot publicly comment on any enquiries, sanctions or investigations it makes into the activities of any of its affiliated companies. This is policy built on legal advice.
What it can and does do is to make enquiries through various means when allegations are made about affiliated companies and this is exactly what it does. This takes place privately out of legal necessity.


. . . except THIS ONE, apparently, because Harry made it VERY public by starting this thread.

But clearly all you are going to do is keep giving us the broken record routine, even when it does not match the facts.
 

Mavo

Tatoc welcomes and will investigate proof of current failures to comply with the code of conduct.
It will be conducted within the following policy.

First and foremost, TATOC cannot publicly comment on any enquiries, sanctions or investigations it makes into the activities of any of its affiliated companies. This is policy built on legal advice.
What it can and does do is to make enquiries through various means when allegations are made about affiliated companies and this is exactly what it does. This takes place privately out of legal necessity.



Carolinian

Quote from: Mavo on January 09, 2013, 21:52:13
Tatoc welcomes and will investigate proof of current failures to comply with the code of conduct.
It will be conducted within the following policy.

First and foremost, TATOC cannot publicly comment on any enquiries, sanctions or investigations it makes into the activities of any of its affiliated companies. This is policy built on legal advice.
What it can and does do is to make enquiries through various means when allegations are made about affiliated companies and this is exactly what it does. This takes place privately out of legal necessity.


Mavo, you have already posted this multiple times.  No need for the broken record.

But one obvious conclusion is that if Harry deviated from well established TATOC policy in making this alleged investigation of The Bullfrog very public by posting this thread, then clearly it was never a real investigation in the first place.
 

Mavo

CAROLINIAN.
Please do not talk about broken records. You will bite your butt off. (Lamont, Owner controlled resorts etc. etc. Yawn Yawn Yawn.)
I have only posted a phrase 4 or 5 times so far. You have been posting your mantra for 8 sodding years. (There were it seems 2 missing years, I wonder what they were about??) 

Do you now accept that I have answered your question. If not I will repost for your benefit as it may be that you have short term memory retention problems.
Just in case.
First and foremost, TATOC cannot publicly comment on any enquiries, sanctions or investigations it makes into the activities of any of its affiliated companies. This is policy built on legal advice.
What it can and does do is to make enquiries through various means when allegations are made about affiliated companies and this is exactly what it does. This takes place privately out of legal necessity.


Carolinian

Gee, Mavo, I thought that member-controlled resorts was the very thing that TATOC was supposed to be about, and the main reason it was created.  You are on their board but look down your nose at that concept?

And based on the blinders you want TATOC to wear about the history of those it affiliates itself with, I am sure you would welcome ''Goldfinger'' Palmer with open arms into TATOC if he claimed to support the TATOC Code of Conduct NOW (no matter his history) and will be a good boy in the future.  Personally, I think if Palmer showed up on TATOC's doorstep, the door should be slammed in his face.
 

Mavo

You did not answer the questions Carolinian.
Why were you missing for 2 years and do you understand my answer to your question?

You seem to believe you have the right to question me. Does it not work both ways? 




Carolinian

I already posted that you were posting a broken record to avoid answering my questions, so yes I have already indicated that I understand your non-answer.

I have posted fairly regularly on these boards since I registered and have certainly NOT been absent from these boards for any two year period. 

You are the one who fails to answer questions.

Most recently you have criticized me for supporting member control of timeshare resorts, while you yourself are a board member of a group that is supposed to be supporting that very thing.  I might remind you of this language from TATOC's Code of Practice for timeshare committees:

''Be a committee of owner representatives elected by the owners''.

Quote from: Mavo on January 09, 2013, 22:47:57
You did not answer the questions Carolinian.
Why were you missing for 2 years and do you understand my answer to your question?

You seem to believe you have the right to question me. Does it not work both ways?
 

Carolinian

Lets look in more detail about the way TATOC is substantially narrowing what it says it would investigate.

First, it has to be a current member of TATOC.  That excludes the shananigans of The Bullfrog's South African companies, which are not members of TATOC.  The way they operate is a clear indication of the way The Bullfrog's organizataion operates, but they are arbitrarily excluded.

Second is the time factor, in which they will only consider things after the signing of the Code of Conduct by the company investigated, and they will not even give us that date for Flexiclub and now Spice / Aroma,meaning that anyone wanting to help them would be flying blind..  The Code of Conduct is dated April, 2011, so presumably it would have to be sometime after that date.  They are given automatic absolution of any sins committed before whatever date they signed.

A third factor is the Code of Conduct itself.  It is a rather short, vague, and general document.  Vague documents are always tremedously prone to subjective interpretation.  The judging body can interpret many things as either violations, or not, at their whim.  Specific standards lead to more objectivity, and forturnately, the Code of Conduct incorporates Codes of Practice in various areas that are intended to provide that specificity.  Unfortunately, however, the only ones now published on the TATOC site are the Codes of Practice for 1) timeshare committees, and 2) resellers.  No Codes of Practice are currently provided for timeshare developers, developer sales, or management, all key areas.  Since the companies in question here are neither resellers nor timeshare committees, there are no applicable Codes of Practice provided by TATOC to cover them.  It seems to me that those Codes of Practice should have been developed before TATOC started putting its stamp of approval on these companies.
 

Mavo

The very first post on this thread seems to indicate that Carolinian was absent from posting on timesharetalk from the year 2006.
July 20th 23:58:57  until June 17th 09:27:12 2009.
I simply enquired as to his whereabouts. He replied with a non answer. I am sure that there has to be a logical answer.

There are 2 other things that readers may care to note.
1) I have never mentioned a Mr Palmer in any of my posts, certainly in the last few years.
2) I have never posted a view on Owner controlled resorts, either positive or negative.

These are both assumptions being made about me by Carolinian.

In conclusion Carolinian seems to build most of his posts on assumptions, rumours and unsubstantiated allegations.
Unfortunately those readers with any sense will accept that this is a basis which would be legally dangerous for TATOC to act upon.
The "broken record" reasoning being now well documented but I will repeat if necessary.
         
As I now intend to withdraw from this debate which I feel has become exhausted, I do hope that a broken record repeat will not be needed.



                 

Alan R

Why not give explicit and specific reasons why you believe Carolinian's posts are: assumptions, rumours and unsubstantiated allegations?

Where is the proof that you (and TATOC) are right and Carolinian is wrong?

Carolinian

On owner controlled resorts, see your post #48 above.

As to assumptions, your bizarre interpretation of Harry's obsession on my posts is a classical example of a baseless assumption.  If you had counted the number of my posts Harry referred to and compared it with my post count on this site, it would have been clear that Harry was picking and choosing among my posts, not cateloging all of them.  I clearly responded that, in fact, I have not been absent for any two year period (or anything remote close, for that matter).  If you  had any competence in using the search function, you undoubtedly could have figured that out by yourself, even if you failed to notice my post count.

As to ''Goldfinger'' Palmer, I was just applied the standard you want to apply on TATOC investigations to probably one of the worst offenders in recent times.  My point is that burying your head in the sand and ignoring past history is highly counterproductive.  I never said that you mentioned Palmer.  I only applied Palmer to your very flawed theory of what should be considered in giving someone the stamp of approval.


Quote from: Mavo on January 10, 2013, 10:19:47
The very first post on this thread seems to indicate that Carolinian was absent from posting on timesharetalk from the year 2006.
July 20th 23:58:57  until June 17th 09:27:12 2009.
I simply enquired as to his whereabouts. He replied with a non answer. I am sure that there has to be a logical answer.

There are 2 other things that readers may care to note.
1) I have never mentioned a Mr Palmer in any of my posts, certainly in the last few years.
2) I have never posted a view on Owner controlled resorts, either positive or negative.

These are both assumptions being made about me by Carolinian.

In conclusion Carolinian seems to build most of his posts on assumptions, rumours and unsubstantiated allegations.
Unfortunately those readers with any sense will accept that this is a basis which would be legally dangerous for TATOC to act upon.
The "broken record" reasoning being now well documented but I will repeat if necessary.
         
As I now intend to withdraw from this debate which I feel has become exhausted, I do hope that a broken record repeat will not be needed.



               
 

Carolinian

Quote from: DNBTS on January 10, 2013, 15:17:08
Why not give explicit and specific reasons why you believe Carolinian's posts are: assumptions, rumours and unsubstantiated allegations?

Where is the proof that you (and TATOC) are right and Carolinian is wrong?


Mavo and Harry rarely if ever seem to want to try their hand at a detailed counterargument against any position they do not like.  That is probably because the facts are not their friends.  Instead they try to blow them off with a generalized put down, or throw up red herrings like Mavo's bizarre contention that I had been absent from these boards for two years.
 

charlie1

There has been some peculiar comments made not relevant to the thread. I have over the years noted postings from all those who have mainly been involved in this debate. I am surprised how a little personal this has become towards Carolinian and wonder why. I am inclined to agree with Carolinian that history should have some bearing. I have sat down with a number of timeshare owners from Spice/Aroma and Silverpoints/........... Reviewing complaints in particular the former company of Silverpoints to know that there is real substance to these past allegations. No one dares to mention the problems associated with the former company of Silverpoints or even Silverpoints. Has anyone beyond a forum moan (apart from the Daily Mail) mention a complaint about them publicly? Silverpoints as we know are well connected. Never a mention by RADO, perhaps its easier to chase the smaller game?

However I have not come across any serious complaints from Aroma or Silverpoints. In fact the CEO of Silverpoints I have found very open when resolving past issues with clients and is prepared to give his time. How many CEO are prepared to do that? 
As far as TATOC are concerned they are in a difficult position, weather they like it or not Silverpoints and Aroma are heavy weights in the Industry and can not be ignored, they are not going away. Perhaps you have to swim with the sharks for a while, perhaps a leopard can change its spots.

Time will tell and perhaps this little thread may one day be referred back to. Lets hope its for the right reasons.  :-\
Timeshare Weekly is an Independent website working with those who share similar ideals. We are here to guide the consumer make the very best of timeshare. We encourage positive change and solutions. Your either living in the problem or your living in the solution. Contact graham@timeshareweekly.com

Carolinian

Charlie- Most of the scoop on The Bullfrog and his companies comes from his operations in South Africa.

Here, for example, is the page on Flexi-Club from the South Africa consumer website ''Hello Peter'':

http://hellopeter.com/search-reports?keyword=Flexi+club

WHile I have not counted them myself, according to another timesharer who has, Flexi-Club has significcantly more complaints on Hello Peter, the largest online consumer site in SA, than all other timeshare companies combined.

As to Silverpoint, most of what I have learned about them is from posts on these boards, and from what I read there, an investigation should certainly be in order.
 

martyboy02

Nice to see that Silverpoint were mentioned on te BBC yesterday, yes, for all the wrong reasons. Yet more scamming.

Pity the programme didn't go more in depth, or talk to more interested parties.
Survivor Of Anfi scammers, willing to help others

Powered by EzPortal