5 Year Plans

Started by Mavo, March 24, 2013, 22:13:15

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Mavo

Why do Companies, Organizations, Clubs etc. have 5 year plans?

As the expected questions on the TATOC 5 year plan have now materialised elsewhere on these forums I thought that it may be opportune to talk about 5 year plans and why they are usually put in place.
There are numerous reasons and there is not an exact one fits all explanation.
For example.
It may be that a plan is designed around the terms of a lease or it may be designed around financial constraints or medium term market forces.
   It may be for instance that a 5 year plan is designed around a term of office and thus is the ideal of what an organisation or indeed chairman or CEO would like to achieve during that term.

It may be that it is felt that progress can be best made by having a plan with various goals to tick off in it, which can then be measured against progress during various stages of the term of the plan.
For instance some elements may be very easy to achieve and can be completed simply and effectively during the very early stages of the overall plan. Some may be progressive goals where steady but gradual progress has to be made over a longer period in order to achieve the end desired result.

Without an end of term ie. 5 years it is easy for longer term goals to be allowed to drift along and never be achieved but if the plan is term dated it becomes highlighted in regular reviews, if reasonable progress is not being achieved in some areas.

  In the case of TATOC it has been said elsewhere that certain Codes of Practice should be very easy and inexpensive to write. I have to agree with that but of course it is not the writing of the codes that is difficult, it is selling them to the large number of affiliates around Europe and beyond and the huge costs that such an undertaking would require.

We would have the product and as with all products, anyone is selling, the need would be to go out and sell it to the customer.
We cannot expect them to come to us.

So as we can see 5 year plans are in effect a series of singular objectives to achieve within a timescale in order to reach an ultimate goal.
Perhaps we should then think in terms of a 5 year goal?

From the TATOC  viewpoint  we know that within the plan there are various elements to achieve which will have their own timescales placed upon them and the plan as laid out is just an overview of the current major objectives.

The Five Year Plan, (in booklet form was available for members to read) and is also available to read on the Internet at http://www.tatoc.co.uk/images/emilyf...eyrplanfa1.pdf [nofollow]       


Carolinian

Because it is on another TST board, here is that other thread Mavo refered to:

http://www.timesharetalk.co.uk/index.php?topic=17511.msg53396
 

Mavo

Quote from: Carolinian on March 24, 2013, 22:39:06
Because it is on another TST board, here is that other thread Mavo refered to:

http://www.timesharetalk.co.uk/index.php?topic=17511.msg53396


I could have posted a link to that thread, except I don`t promote threads started on timeshare negativity.

Carolinian

Quote from: Mavo on March 24, 2013, 22:50:42



I could have posted a link to that thread, except I don`t promote threads started on timeshare negativity.


Sandy, who started that thread went through both the good and bad points of the 5 year plan.  I would hardly call that ''negativity''.
 

charlie1

It wont matter much what we say on here TATOC will have its own agenda and were have to wait and see. It appears as if its almost mission impossible without effective funding and at the sometime keeping their plates spinning trying to please everyone while working towards their goals.
Timeshare Weekly is an Independent website working with those who share similar ideals. We are here to guide the consumer make the very best of timeshare. We encourage positive change and solutions. Your either living in the problem or your living in the solution. Contact graham@timeshareweekly.com

Mavo

Quote from: Carolinian on March 24, 2013, 23:03:52
Quote from: Mavo on March 24, 2013, 22:50:42



I could have posted a link to that thread, except I don`t promote threads started on timeshare negativity.


Sandy, who started that thread went through both the good and bad points of the 5 year plan.  I would hardly call that ''negativity''.


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charlie1

TATOC have a massive job ahead of them when reviewing their end game. This can be done but I don't envy TATOC as there meet resistance and it needs everyone pulling in the same direction all synchronised. We had to do this in the Financial Services Industry 20 years ago so I am aware more than most whats required. We were fortunate as the Government had to get involved and help financially support this. TATOC are extremely unlikely to ever have this luxury. Thats the major obstacle that has to be worked on is the financial support.

The Financial Services Industry with all their resource have still not got it right in 20 years!!!So for their overall objectives I would say that 5 years may even be a little optimistic.

In my opinion it will revolve around how soon they can get on board and reach out to the individual resorts by demonstrating to them the value of TATOC membership. The value and benefits of membership has be regularly reviewed to ensure it embraces the challenges that resorts have in this current climate and how TATOC can offer up solutions that they can all benefit from.

These two areas are connected raising finance and membership benefits. They are obviously ongoing and requires real attention to detail by the personal involved and this should be there only focus in my opinion, as everything else will revolve around the ongoing success of these two projects.

A high percentage of resorts in Europe are one off resorts their membership would go some way to assisting their objectives.

If TATOC have the right experienced personal in place to head up these projects and this is orchestrated effectively then this can be done but its a very tall order.
Timeshare Weekly is an Independent website working with those who share similar ideals. We are here to guide the consumer make the very best of timeshare. We encourage positive change and solutions. Your either living in the problem or your living in the solution. Contact graham@timeshareweekly.com

Mavo

I know that TATOC are very well aware of the difficulties of implementing the next 5 years plan and the need for additional funding streams and also the need for the co-operation of the industry in accepting some TATOC policies which are built around Coded of Practice, codes which if complied with may well have a short term negative input on current industry practices.
Having sucessfully completed the last 5 year plan in the face of similar opposition from within the industry and also from sceptical consumers such as we see on here from time to time and of course we must not forget opposition from self styled rival trade bodies, TATOC feels confident that its next ambitious 5 year objectives can be achieved.
It would be nice of course if TATOC were to be encouraged by more posters than Charlie 1, rather than be confronted on a regular basis by negative posts or advisory posts from those who assume that they know the inner workings of TATOC.

The invitation is still out there to visit TATOC headquarters and find out how it really all works rather than continue posting on "perceived" TATOC policies leading to much inaccuracy in some posts.

Sandy Grey

Mavo makes a very good point when he says that writing a Code is easy ,  but  selling it ti to the  traders is the difficult bit.

Some years ago a small group of us established  "Trust Timeshare" - a new trade body dedicated to improving the consumer image of the industry.  We produced a comprehensive Code of Conduct and got OFT informal nod that they would give it their seal of approval provided that sufficient traders adopted it.

Then we talked to as many traders as possible - some individually, others in small groups - starting with the "good" guys first.   Yes, of course they liked it.  Yes, of course they thought it was a good idea. Yes, they thought it would help the industry develop and grow. But, no, they would only join if (nearly) everyone else would join.

So Trust Timeshare was stillborn.

Sandy Grey

Mavo

Quote from: Sandy Grey on March 25, 2013, 14:09:05
Mavo makes a very good point when he says that writing a Code is easy ,  but  selling it ti to the  traders is the difficult bit.

Some years ago a small group of us established  "Trust Timeshare" - a new trade body dedicated to improving the consumer image of the industry.  We produced a comprehensive Code of Conduct and got OFT informal nod that they would give it their seal of approval provided that sufficient traders adopted it.

Then we talked to as many traders as possible - some individually, others in small groups - starting with the "good" guys first.   Yes, of course they liked it.  Yes, of course they thought it was a good idea. Yes, they thought it would help the industry develop and grow. But, no, they would only join if (nearly) everyone else would join.

So Trust Timeshare was stillborn.

Sandy Grey



We will have to hope that trading conditions have changed radically since "Trust Timeshare" and that the resorts and developers are now more responsive and open to reform.
We also have to accept that in all probability TATOC have built up a much greater credibility with resorts and developers than "a small group of us" had when the attempt to launch "Trust Timeshare" was made. With over 400,000 members currently under the TATOC umbrella it certainly seems to point that way. 

charlie1

I agree I think that resorts will be a little more receptive in these more difficult times. Going back a while the majority of resorts had a certain feeling of invincibility and even arrogance with some of them as sells were being rolled out on a conveyor belt.

The Internet is slowly educating the masses and they are using this more and more as a medium to support an important sale such as a timeshare.

The Industry is coming around to the fact that they have to make changes, but most seem clueless what needs to happen and are still stuck into an old way of doing and thinking.

In my opinion with the right type of approach if you have something of value that will support the resorts this will be met with new members joining. 

Time will tell, but certainly most of the timeshare players in the Industry need to make a lot of positive changes in a number of areas to become a part of the 21st century. We have some dinosaurs out there and unless they move with the times they too will become extinct!!
Timeshare Weekly is an Independent website working with those who share similar ideals. We are here to guide the consumer make the very best of timeshare. We encourage positive change and solutions. Your either living in the problem or your living in the solution. Contact graham@timeshareweekly.com

Carolinian

Of course, the dynamics of member run resorts, which are the backbone of TATOC, and resorts still in developer sales or still under developer control are quite different. Develope. Developers often tend to resist anything that will cramp their style of their sales and management methods, so expecting a buy in from them is about like waiting for Santa Claus ot arrive.  As seen with Trust Timeshare even the good guys are resistant to anything that restricts developers.  That should not stop the process of moving forward with Codes of Practice.  Otherwise the developers will keep consumer oriented groups checkmated.  If you wait for developer buy-in, you might as well have a 50-year plan instead of a 5-year plan.
 

charlie1

My post relates to the individual resorts whether they are member run or under developer control. There's enough of them and they will be more receptive in Europe. The small developer run resorts are struggling and would be open to the right approach if they could see the value.

The developer owned groups of resorts will ignore these approaches and will continue to do there own thing. Even those that may be members of TATOC now will resist changes that need to take place. However having seen the latest AGM reports from some of these larger groups even those will have to make some internal changes to accommodate consumer trends.

This is what needs to be targeted the individual member resorts and the one off privately owned resorts. However you have to ensure that you have a product/membership that is able to work to solving their individual problems that has to be there first. As said a tall order.
Timeshare Weekly is an Independent website working with those who share similar ideals. We are here to guide the consumer make the very best of timeshare. We encourage positive change and solutions. Your either living in the problem or your living in the solution. Contact graham@timeshareweekly.com

Mavo

We really have to forward think on this one and bearing in mind the massive impact that the internet has had on the timeshare consumer in the last 5 years, if we predict forward with a similar snowball effect then who knows how receptive to change industry will become over the next 5 years.

It may be that it becomes in the interests of the industry to buy into TATOC codes of practice if it results in "survive and thrive" as opposed to the continual negative trends of just standing still and hoping something inspirational will miracle itself out of the ether.

Anybody can just sit there and spew out negativities but they will be of no help to us the consumers. What it needs is someone who is prepared to get off their butt and do something about it and that is just what TATOC is attempting to do over the next 5 years. So instead of just posting "I cannot see it working posts" which belittle their efforts then the doom and gloom merchants should either get behind the concept or get the hell out of the way and allow TATOC to get on with their work without hindrance.

Carolinian

When some of us post constructive, pro-active threads, they get locked by you, Mavo as with the one on TATOC Codes of Practice.  It seems like some have their minds made up and do not want to listen to suggestions, especially if those suggestions might inconvenience some developers.
 

Mavo

Quote from: Carolinian on March 25, 2013, 20:44:27
When some of us post constructive, pro-active threads, they get locked by you, Mavo as with the one on TATOC Codes of Practice.  It seems like some have their minds made up and do not want to listen to suggestions, especially if those suggestions might inconvenience some developers.


I cannot see how you can possibly justify suggesting  the creating of Codes of Practice on another thread (which I locked as it had no other contributors after being left for a reasonable length of time) then coming on here and telling us why the  Codes of Practice that you advocated, currently have no chance of being bought into by developers.

* If we were not willing to listen to suggestions then believe me I would have not just locked the thread I would have deleted it completely.
So as I now see it your arguement above holds no water in two areas.

Carolinian

Quote from: Mavo on March 25, 2013, 21:58:18]

I cannot see how you can possibly justify suggesting  the creating of Codes of Practice on another thread (which I locked as it had no other contributors after being left for a reasonable length of time) then coming on here and telling us why the  Codes of Practice that you advocated, currently have no chance of being bought into by developers.

* If we were not willing to listen to suggestions then believe me I would have not just locked the thread I would have deleted it completely.
So as I now see it your arguement above holds no water in two areas.


A ''reasonable length of time'' to comment for virtually all threads on TST is forever.  Locking threads almost never happens except by you and then only when it has something to do with TATOC that does not meet your approval.

If developers do not ''buy into'' Codes of Practice'' then it is time to set them out as standards for the industry.  If the only Codes you will adopt are those that the industry buys into, then you will have nothing but weak, useless codes.

Did the resale industry buy into your Code of Practice for them?  If so, please explain how.  Or did you just set it out as the standard that should be followed?  How are developers any different?
 

charlie1

'Survive and thrive' I like that almost a battle cry. No one can predict the future but we all know that for any business to survive it has to stay ahead of the game, it has to adjust and evolve.

This however to an extent does not seem to have been applied to the timeshare Industry in terms of the way most of the businesses seem to have been run, it was as if time had stood still. Now two main factors have come into play primarily a maturing membership and the Internet. This alone will force through changes and those who don't keep up will suffer a slow lingering demise. We will see smaller resorts disappear or merge and the bigger players make a few acquisitions.

The real winners will be those who lead the way and see this as an opportunity or are assisted across the line and I believe this will happen at grass root level if this is worked. If the smaller players find common ground and are assisted and educated on route not just with an evolving code of conduct, but with a package of professional help and guidance that they can draw upon to suit their needs this will work. There are companies outside of timeshare that can assist.

There is a lot that can be done if you have a competent management or committee with the right attitude then they can work through this themselves with guidance.

Some areas such as

Marketing they need advice on how to market for new members and analysis where is 'our' market what can we as a resort support. Can we cater for families, young couples, and the disabled, perhaps the single market? What's unique about our resort our location, what changes can we make to accommodate this? Some of this can be peanuts perhaps they never really established what was their market.

Can we support this massive growing disabled market perhaps with disable mobility service groups? Do we even know how a mobile disability company can support this at perhaps no cost to the resort? What about the retired market, timeshare is made for them how can we support this and educate them?

Some resorts need to stand back and just review there business there are some very cost efficient ways that they can make timeshare and their resort become a more attractive holiday experience.

Exit strategies How to personalise their own exit strategies to make timeshare more attractive. This may be gradual to begin with to ensure there is a balance, but this would help attract more members. There is not one size fits all but it can be done.

Education to existing owners how can they get the message out to their own members on how to use timeshare effectively. Can we utilise perhaps the Independent Exchange Companies more. Are there other companies that can be involved to make this a great holiday experience for our guests and members.
A question I ask timeshare owners who want out of timeshare is "Do you intend to holiday outside of timeshare" and a worrying proportion say YES! They need educating I have sat down with timeshare owners and just shown them how to use what's available to them and there's been a change of heart.

Professional sales people This is the hard one were not talking sales skills, but sales people knowing the basics of how the industry works and personalising this to suit the timeshare owners. This does not need to be a colossal expense with online training this could be established on a similar basis as Shari Levitin of the Levitin group that trains sales people how to sell primarily in the USA. Teach them how to advise the timeshare owner make the most effective use of their timeshare. That's using all the tools at your disposal including the Independent Exchange Companies.
We don't need sale people knocking doors or tricking them into presentations. I have covered this before.

There's so much more that can be done the focus should not be on a code of conduct which is important but I believe there are equal if not bigger issues that need real focus now. This focus on the code of conduct is not what's going to make this industry survive and thrive that will come. Its important but it would not be where I would be working now. TATOC may end up creating its code of conduct that may be just be followed by its members, but if they can grow this membership then other resorts and Groups will need to be seen as being a part of this. Maybe softly softly catch a monkey as the saying goes.

Just an opinion but if we don't get the other areas right there wont be anything worth governing.
Timeshare Weekly is an Independent website working with those who share similar ideals. We are here to guide the consumer make the very best of timeshare. We encourage positive change and solutions. Your either living in the problem or your living in the solution. Contact graham@timeshareweekly.com

Mavo

Quote from: Carolinian on March 25, 2013, 23:27:33
Quote from: Mavo on March 25, 2013, 21:58:18]

I cannot see how you can possibly justify suggesting  the creating of Codes of Practice on another thread (which I locked as it had no other contributors after being left for a reasonable length of time) then coming on here and telling us why the  Codes of Practice that you advocated, currently have no chance of being bought into by developers.

* If we were not willing to listen to suggestions then believe me I would have not just locked the thread I would have deleted it completely.
So as I now see it your arguement above holds no water in two areas.


A ''reasonable length of time'' to comment for virtually all threads on TST is forever.  Locking threads almost never happens except by you and then only when it has something to do with TATOC that does not meet your approval.





Carolinian
Please review the locked thread you refer to and try harder to understand the reasons it was locked.
And please try to resist the temptation to slip pieces into your posts on this forum which are designed to attempt to take threads off topic when your posts are shown to have inconsistencies with your previous suggestions as to how TATOC should conduct its business.

Alternatively you could arrange to take up the kind invitation of Harry Taylor to visit TATOC headquarters and find out how it really functions and thus become better qualified to tender your advice.

Carolinian

TATOC has done two Codes of Practice, on resellers and on timeshare committees.  It did not take them anywhere near 5 years to do it.  The latter is their key area of expertise, so I am sure they had a lot of input on it from their members.  The former, however, deals with an area where there are a lot of rogues and only a tiny handful of honest players. It is  not something that you could run by the resale industry and get buy-in.  You might at best get two or three above board resellers to sign on (and a couple of them obviously have) but not the overwhelmingly bulk of the timeshare resale industry.  Yet, there, TATOC did what was right and put out a Code of Practice that defended the rights of consumers, as you should have.  You did not sit back and gnash your teeth about getting buy-in from the timeshare resale industry.  TATOC is to be applauded for that.

Now, we come to Codes of Practice that impact developers, and it is an entirely different story.  TATOC is not willing to do what they did with resellers and put out a Code of Practice that defends the rights of consumers, their purported main constituency.  They want to keep putting this off.  I am sure it will be in the 5 year plan after this one, and the one after that, and so on. Why?  Well, if they wrote one that said what it really should, then it would crimp developers style.  Developers could no longer give lip serivice to the vague and general Code of Conduct because now there would be a Code Of Practice that they would not allow them to do some of the things they do that negatively impact consumers.  That would mean that they could no longer be a TATOC sponsor, so that they would no longer be writing checks to TATOC to pay salaries and other expenses.  In looking over the list of TATOC sponsors some are quite reputable, others borderline, and others highly questionable.  TATOC would likely keep some of the first group but it would be hard pressed on the others.  It all reminds me of ''Deep Throat'' in the Watergate saga and his admonition to ''follow the money''.  It is high time for TATOC to do what is right for consumers and let the chips fall where they may.

The Code of Conduct supported by its detailed Codes of Practice in each of the specific areas is a great concept and a real contribution to timesharing.  TATOC is to be applauded for that.  But they need to get on with it and complete the missing pieces or it remains only half baked (or maybe one quarter baked!).

When it comes to your locking threads, Mavo, on some of them it is clearly because you are losing the argument so you shut it down.  But the one I referenced above, I suggest all TST readers read that one and ask ''Why the devil did he lock this one?''.
 

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