Lots of Wychnor Park rentals online at II

Started by Carolinian, May 20, 2012, 20:19:32

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Carolinian

It amazed me that the number of rentals on the II website (US versioin, which is why the price is in US$) for Wychnor Park is so high, especially with not a single week offered for exchange by II:


Wychnor Park Country Club
WYP 
Staffordshire, , GREAT BRITAIN
Resort Details & Photos
$51.00
Platinum Avg. Night

Interval
Member Gold
Member Platinum
Member
Jun 23 2012 - Jun 30 2012
1 4 4

$609.00 $584.00 $559.00

Jun 23 2012 - Jun 30 2012
2 6 6

$686.00 $661.00 $636.00

Jul 07 2012 - Jul 14 2012
1 4 4

$732.00 $707.00 $682.00

Jul 07 2012 - Jul 14 2012
2 6 6

$808.00 $783.00 $758.00

Jul 14 2012 - Jul 21 2012
1 4 4

$732.00 $707.00 $682.00

Jul 21 2012 - Jul 28 2012
1 4 4

$732.00 $707.00 $682.00

Jul 21 2012 - Jul 28 2012
2 6 6

$808.00 $783.00 $758.00

Aug 04 2012 - Aug 11 2012
2 6 6

$838.00 $813.00 $788.00

Aug 11 2012 - Aug 18 2012
1 4 4

$762.00 $737.00 $712.00

Aug 18 2012 - Aug 25 2012
2 6 6

$884.00 $859.00 $834.00

Aug 25 2012 - Sep 01 2012
1 4 4

$762.00 $737.00 $712.00

Aug 25 2012 - Sep 01 2012
2 6 6

$884.00 $859.00 $834.00

Sep 01 2012 - Sep 08 2012
2 6 6

$686.00 $661.00 $636.00

Sep 08 2012 - Sep 15 2012
1 4 4

$579.00 $554.00 $529.00

Sep 08 2012 - Sep 15 2012
2 6 6

$686.00 $661.00 $636.00

Sep 15 2012 - Sep 22 2012
1 4 4

$579.00 $554.00 $529.00

Sep 22 2012 - Sep 29 2012
1 4 4

$579.00 $554.00 $529.00

Sep 22 2012 - Sep 29 2012
2 6 6

$686.00 $661.00 $636.00

Sep 29 2012 - Oct 06 2012
2 6 6

$640.00 $615.00 $590.00

Oct 06 2012 - Oct 13 2012
1 4 4

$487.00 $462.00 $437.00

Oct 06 2012 - Oct 13 2012
2 6 6

$640.00 $615.00 $590.00

Oct 13 2012 - Oct 20 2012
1 4 4

$487.00 $462.00 $437.00

Oct 13 2012 - Oct 20 2012
2 6 6

$640.00 $615.00 $590.00

Oct 20 2012 - Oct 27 2012
2 6 6

$640.00 $615.00 $590.00

Nov 03 2012 - Nov 10 2012
1 4 4

$407.00 $382.00 $357.00

Nov 17 2012 - Nov 24 2012
1 4 4

$407.00 $382.00 $357.00

Nov 24 2012 - Dec 01 2012
1 4 4

$407.00 $382.00 $357.00

Dec 01 2012 - Dec 08 2012
1 4 4

$407.00 $382.00 $357.00

For background, this is a resort that not so long ago, DRI forced out the fixed week owners saying it needed the weeks for its points club members.  Now II is offering lots of them for rent.

Back in the days when the fixed weeks owners deposited mostly with RCI, Wychnor Park availibility was a hit and miss thing for exchange at RCI.  There sometimes was a week or two availible but more often nothing.

This would have to be one of two sceanarios:

1) DRI or its members deposited these weeks to II for exchange but II diverted them to rental for II's own benefit.  WHile II has been known to do some of that, they do it far less than RCI, and this massive a shift to rentals would mean II is getting into the rental game as big or bigger than RCI.

-OR-

2) DRI is using II as a rental outlet to rent these weeks for DRI's benefit.  Again, DRI has been known to use outside rental outlets and II has been known to handle such rentals for developers.  If this is the case, I wonder how this rental availibility compares to DRI's reservation availibility at this resort for its members.  If a week is placed in RCI's rental pool, it has historically not been availible for exchange, but I do not know how II operates or what conditions DRI put on if these weeks were placed with II for rental by DRI.
 

Boss Man

Personally I think it's 2) Carolinian. Maybe DRI are taking after Sunterra more than we think !

Carolinian

On another board, there is a former II employee who recently left the company and is availible to answer questions, using the screen name of ''IIanswers''.  I asked him about how much exchange inventory II gets from DRI in Europe and also about the source of the rentals, both at Wychnor and other DRI resorts in Europe.  Here is his answer:

DRI's official line is that there isn't enough units purchased in Europe or some similar spiel. I never did get told the truth though. Probably renting it to line SJC's pockets.

While that may not be the best situation for II members, it would be a bigger concern if DRI members also have few reservations availible at the same time this inventory is put up for rental.  Hopefully, they are at least giving their own members access to these weeks, too.  But we will have to wait for a DRI member to post to answer that question.
 

Mavo

Quote from: Carolinian on May 21, 2012, 10:24:02
On another board, there is a former II employee who recently left the company and is availible to answer questions, using the screen name of ''IIanswers''.  I asked him about how much exchange inventory II gets from DRI in Europe and also about the source of the rentals, both at Wychnor and other DRI resorts in Europe.  Here is his answer:

DRI's official line is that there isn't enough units purchased in Europe or some similar spiel. I never did get told the truth though. Probably renting it to line SJC's pockets.

While that may not be the best situation for II members, it would be a bigger concern if DRI members also have few reservations availible at the same time this inventory is put up for rental.  Hopefully, they are at least giving their own members access to these weeks, too.  But we will have to wait for a DRI member to post to answer that question.


Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your viewpoint, because DRI policy is to never discuss their business arrangements with their  members, other than at the AGM or other official meetings arranged from time to time by the company, any posts from members on this subject would be pure speculation.

  What I do know and I will say is that given the ageing of timeshare owners in general and given the fact that a very large proportion of DRI European members reside in the UK (95%) a heavier demand for UK resorts has become apparent in recent years. To this end DRI has been releasing extra inventory, from their own holding, into the points system in order to aleviate the pressure. This has been openly reported on the DRI official forum and also at the AGMs of the last 2 or 3 years.
DRI having done their bit for members in that respect then I for one do not begrudge them doing whatever they like with the rest of their annual holding and in fact on the DRI website in an area which anybody can access there is a program called Hot Rental Deals.
For members there are currently, special half points and more off, offers at many resorts at all sorts of times in the year, not just within the 59 days rule. I can only assume that these offers are for weeks owned by DRI that are not normally in the system. (As I said, speculation)
Just like all other points holders DRI have to pay maintenance and management fees on their points holdings and just like we are allowed to rent out then so are they as they are working within the same rules.
 
   

Carolinian

I guess my question, Mavo, would be, for comparision purposes, how many weeks during this time period is DRI currently making availible at this resort to its own members for reservation?
 

Mavo

Quote from: Carolinian on May 21, 2012, 20:36:00
I guess my question, Mavo, would be, for comparision purposes, how many weeks during this time period is DRI currently making availible at this resort to its own members for reservation?


I think that information would be for members to ask but as I said DRI do not normally discuss their business with outsiders or their customers
By the way Carolinian, are you a DRI member ?
He asks innocently!


Carolinian

While I like a lot of the resorts that DRI has and I think DRI has done some positive things from a management perspective, there is one major reason that I would not buy DRI, and that is that I only buy timeshare at member-controlled resorts, where members elect their association board members, and that member-elected board then chooses management. DRI unfortunately does not qualify.  If you want to see a good reason for my position on that, you only have to look at things like the current controversty between members and the developer-controlled board at Point at Poipu, and the developer there, BTW, is DRI.  Having served as a board member and president of a homeowners association at a member controlled resort myself makes me even firmer in that position.  It is nothing specific to DRI, but I just have no interest in owning at a developer-controlled resort or resort group.  I also much prefer the fixed week concept of ownership over points or floating weeks.

Another very serious problem I would have with DRI is their attempt to prohibit members from using any other exchange company but themselves or II.  They are one of the worst in the industry with their monopolistic hardline on that issue.  With most resorts, members are free to use independent exchange companies.  I currently own at resorts in the UK, the US, and South Africa, and have owned at other resorts in the US, continental Europe, Australia, South Africa, and the Caribbean.  I have never had any of them prohibit my using independent exchange companies.  I have weeks from my UK resort currently on deposit with DAE, SFX, and now UKRE.  I would never own at a resort or resort group that tries to straightjacket where I can place exchange deposits.

As to Wychnor Park, I recall the postings on this board from fixed week owners there who were being forced out by DRI, which claimed it needed their weeks to provide space for points members reservations.  It would now appear that instead of providing space to points members, DRI is renting that inventory to non-members.  Do you think those fixed week owners were treated fairly by DRI?  Should they have been strongarmed out merely to provide rental inventory for DRI?

While, I had initially feared that these rentals were an indication of II going the way of RCI, I am at least releived that this does not appear to be the case.


Quote from: Mavo on May 21, 2012, 20:46:21
Quote from: Carolinian on May 21, 2012, 20:36:00
I guess my question, Mavo, would be, for comparision purposes, how many weeks during this time period is DRI currently making availible at this resort to its own members for reservation?


I think that information would be for members to ask but as I said DRI do not normally discuss their business with outsiders or their customers
By the way Carolinian, are you a DRI member ?
He asks innocently!
 

Mavo

DRI have in recent times answered questions on this subject on the members forum on the official DRI site. Unless you are a member you will be unable to read those questions and answers. If DRI wish to post here on the subject they have the ability to do so but I suspect that they will not as they do not normally communicate with none members on their business policies.

However if you wish to PM me your private telephone number I could try to persuade The Chairman to contact you.
 

Carolinian

No need to talk to the CEO, if he would even do so.  I was seeking simple info that should be availible to members, like what sort of availibility is open to you in comparision to what they are renting.  I don't know how DRI works, but with RCI, DAE, SFX, HTSE, etc., I can go online and look it up, which would be simple enough to do with DRI if they have a similar system.  And, yes, it does burn me up when I see what RCI is renting compared to what they offer for exchange, particularly at resorts where I know that all of their rental inventory comes from exchange deposits. That is why I do not give RCI any exchange deposits myself anymore but use independent exchange companies instead.

And it is really beyond me why members of any timeshare company would be secretive about such info.  Execs, yes, but individual members, no.  Is there some reason to hide the answers?  Heck when a member of this board asks info about any system I am a member of, I am happy to post everything I know about it, as I believe timesharing is improved by members sharing such info.  On another board, I have frequently posted about what I see on the DAE availibility list, and if questions are asked here, I will do so here as well.


Quote from: Mavo on May 22, 2012, 12:03:39
DRI have in recent times answered questions on this subject on the members forum on the official DRI site. Unless you are a member you will be unable to read those questions and answers. If DRI wish to post here on the subject they have the ability to do so but I suspect that they will not as they do not normally communicate with none members on their business policies.

However if you wish to PM me your private telephone number I could try to persuade The Chairman to contact you.

 

Carolinian

One other question I am curious about is whether European II members can see these same rentals.  A member of a US site posted the above list on that site, but they can only the what is offered to North American II members.  If European members can see them, are the prices comparable?
 

Mavo

Quote from: Carolinian on May 22, 2012, 16:07:59
One other question I am curious about is whether European II members can see these same rentals.  A member of a US site posted the above list on that site, but they can only the what is offered to North American II members.  If European members can see them, are the prices comparable?


No idea as I have never wanted to use II so have never accessed their site.
To answer your other query. If the company, historically, does not wish to disclose its business dealings then I as a member/customer feel that I should respect that wish.

  With respect Carolinian
As you do not use II, RCI or DRI by your own admissions, I would have thought that how they conduct their businesses has nothing to do with you and you are simply doing a little mischief making similar to what you have done in the past.
My information is that on a number of occasions you have, in the past, performed similar exercises around DRI and RCI on American sites and I note that on here your past negative posts on Exchange Companies and Developers invariably make reference to RCI or DRI.
I cannot stop you from negative postings which appear to be normally directed at these 2 companies but I can make others aware so that bias opinion does not occur.


   

eneri

Quote from: Carolinian on May 22, 2012, 16:07:59
One other question I am curious about is whether European II members can see these same rentals.  A member of a US site posted the above list on that site, but they can only the what is offered to North American II members.  If European members can see them, are the prices comparable?


In a word, Yes
 

Carolinian

I comment on various exchange companies and developers, good and bad, and DRI like most is a mixture of both.  For the record on RCI, I was originally elected to my HOA board of directors as the candidate of the pro-RCI faction, but many changes that have occured since Cendent (now Wyndham) bought RCI have radically changed the landscape there.  I tend to look at things in timesharing based on what is best for the individual members and for the viability of timeshare resorts and the overall timeshare system.  When DRI has done some positive things like their relationship with Hapimag, I have applauded them.  When they have done negative things like their running the fixed week owners out of Wychnor Park, I have called their hand on it.  BTW, you defended the Wychnor Park action based on more weeks for points club members, but now that they are obviously renting those to non-members instead, you have not answered my question about whether you still support that act.  I well remember the Wychnor Park fixed week owners who posted on here about how they were getting royally screwed, and they were.

How exchange companies conduct their business does indeed impact all of us in timesharing.  RCI's new Points Lite has led to lots of calls to resorts of members wanting to ditch their timeshares, at in least one of the areas in which I own, and that impacts their viability.  Any thinking timeshare owner would be concerned.  We do not need to bury our heads in the sand.  DRI's very monopolistic policy of trying to prevent their members from using exchange system other than their own and II not only goosestops all over the rights of their members but it impacts those who use other exchange companies.  It is an evil act in timesharing and probably illegal if someone challenges it in court.

My observation in life is that secrecy in a situation where others are up front with the facts, usually indicates something to hide.  The ''circle the wagons'' for those who do not know the secret club handshake attitude speaks volumes.  Why is it that you do not want to answer a simple question?

As to DRI on US timeshare sites, I think the major issue I have gotten involved in discussion has been about DRI's abuse of power at Point at Poipu, and I was only one of many who criticized what DRI did there.  At that resort, they control a minority of weeks but control a majority of the board plus the management.  They do that by thumbing their nose at state law that requires them to turn over membership lists to others seeking board seeks, which they refuse to comply with.  Due to their illegal actions, rival candidates representing the non-DRI majority cannot effectively canvass for votes.  The undemocratic DRI-controlled board just imposed what is probably the largest special assessment in timeshare history, and many owners are extremely upset, and for good reason.  There is a lot of activity to try to end DRI's control of the resort.  But my position there really has nothing to do with DRI.  I have always been a staunch advocate of timeshare board democracy, and control by the members of HOA boards, while consistently opposing developer dictatorships in control of timeshare boards.  Another major timeshare chain has had every court that has ruled, including recently the California Supreme Court, order them to comply with state law and turn over membership lists to concerned owner groups who wanted to run board candidates against the developer slate, and I have also been vocal on that one.  At two of my resorts, in North Carolina and South Africa, timeshare members had to organize to kick the developer out and establish member control of the resorts. 

Quote from: Mavo on May 22, 2012, 16:45:35
Quote from: Carolinian on May 22, 2012, 16:07:59
One other question I am curious about is whether European II members can see these same rentals.  A member of a US site posted the above list on that site, but they can only the what is offered to North American II members.  If European members can see them, are the prices comparable?


No idea as I have never wanted to use II so have never accessed their site.
To answer your other query. If the company, historically, does not wish to disclose its business dealings then I as a member/customer feel that I should respect that wish.

  With respect Carolinian
As you do not use II, RCI or DRI by your own admissions, I would have thought that how they conduct their businesses has nothing to do with you and you are simply doing a little mischief making similar to what you have done in the past.
My information is that on a number of occasions you have, in the past, performed similar exercises around DRI and RCI on American sites and I note that on here your past negative posts on Exchange Companies and Developers invariably make reference to RCI or DRI.
I cannot stop you from negative postings which appear to be normally directed at these 2 companies but I can make others aware so that bias opinion does not occur.



 

eneri

Don't know if I missed something about this on all thats been written on this thread but doesn't the fact that Diamond are willing to directly rent out to the general public (albeit at greatly increased rates compared to II) have a negative effect on exchange availability?
 

Carolinian

Quote from: eneri on May 23, 2012, 14:49:06
Don't know if I missed something about this on all thats been written on this thread but doesn't the fact that Diamond are willing to directly rent out to the general public (albeit at greatly increased rates compared to II) have a negative effect on exchange availability?


Where there is a points-based system or floating system that rents outside the system, there is an inherent danger, which is hardly unique to DRI, of whoever is running the system cherry picking the best weeks for rentals at the expense of members not being able to get those prime resorts or weeks as reservations or trades.  Some resorts and some weeks of the year are going to make both the most demanded for use by members and the most valuable weeks to rent out.  The question is who gets them?  That is a big reason I only own fixed weeks.  That way you know that no one can play games on you as to availibility.

It is a legitimate question to ask, but it appears that the DRI members have a Code of Silence or something.  It seems they have information, or at least the company line from DRI, but do not want to share it.   Normally when information is positive for an entity, its supporters want to share the information, which suggests that the information here may at least not be totally positive.

A similar issue is becoming an increasing problem with floating week resorts and deposits to exchange companies.  At least in the US in the past couple of years a great many of them have apparently stopped allowing members to choose the week to deposit for them to the exchange company.  Instead the resort picks the week, and it often is a more mediocre week with less trading power than the owner would have selected for himself.  Some of these systems are also involved in rentals of excess inventory and it helps the bottom line to make the better weeks fall in the excess inventory.  Of course, you can still choose your week if you are using it yourself, but even if you then try to deposit it, they take that week away from you and give you a different one, usually less desirable.
 

Kavrocks

However if you wish to PM me your private telephone number I could try to persuade The Chairman to contact you.

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