Sponsored Link

SILVERPOINT / BEVERLY HILLS

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online charlie1

  • Supporting Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 697
  • Karma: +34/-2
    • View Profile
Re: SILVERPOINT / BEVERLY HILLS
« Reply #140 on: January 07, 2014, 10:17:25 »
Is there nothing in the Result rules/constitution about time limits with regard to AGM, EGM or SGMs. Could a court injunction be obtained by members to stop the meeting? Surely the RDO and TATOC could do something for the good of all parties, it must be better to do something before more negative press about the industry.
I believe, Martyboy, that if you read the constitution, the committee have written themselves a clause which allows them to do almost anything they like provided they are themselves convinced it is it the members' interest.  Ergo if it suits them and they are members it passes - See?

Nonetheless, the vote is bound to go through because Silverpoint having so many weeks on their hands can push through any vote. Provided of course they have..... Ahem... paid the subscriptions for 2014 on each week they use as a voting right. they may not have done this, so it would be fair to allow those votes from members who have yet to pay their 2014 fees, to stand. Not that it will make any difference of course. The commiittee will always find a way to win.

I have noticed posts asking what advice RDO or TATOC would have provided Silverpoints regarding this consolidation and the floating weeks system. Reading between the lines I would think none.

More so TATOC as it has been explained on past threads have a limited resource. They would have been contacted and consulted with them telling what is in their proposal and this is what will happen subject to the vote. If Silverpoints state that this has come from the committee and the committee back this up there is no where to go with this. As TATOC have said to Daveyboy Silverpoints they have done nothing ilegal. There is very little guidance that any body can really give as its already been wrapped up.

There are those that will say that the committee are led by Silverpoints or in there pockets. Well that would have to be proven and as tco has stated to Martyboy "I believe, Martyboy, that if you read the constitution, the committee have written themselves a clause which allows them to do almost anything they like provided they are themselves convinced it is it the members' interest.  Ergo if it suits them and they are members it passes - See?"

As mentioned before in my opinion if members who have a proven track record historically of taking the same holiday week in their own apartment and those unhappy members approach Silverpoints with this they should reach a compromise that both parties are happy with. This has got to be far better than expensive litigation that may even set a legal precedent.

I dont see a vehicle in place for members to be able to group together on a united front as suggested by other posters. I believe only a small percentage of Silverpoint members are even aware of the existance of this forum or are concerned enough to do anything about this other than vote against this. Once the vote goes in the favour of the proposal the vast majority will accept this

This is happening and it will pass. 


« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 11:35:18 by charlie1 »
Timeshare is a great concept and you will enjoy a lifetime of holiday experiences as long as you own the right product to suit your holiday style and take the time out to do a little homework.


Offline Carolinian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1654
  • Karma: +53/-6
    • View Profile
Re: SILVERPOINT / BEVERLY HILLS
« Reply #141 on: January 07, 2014, 13:53:46 »
So Silverpoint is buggering members by depriving them of their more valuable fixed weeks and giving them far less desirable or valuable floating weeks in exchange, and TATOC thinks that is fine.  It is clear that TATOC is now a pro-developer organization that will sell timeshare members out in a heartbeat.

We have had a Spanish lawyer tell us on this board what the real legal situation is with this fiasco, but TATOC just rubberstamps what the developer wants which is totally contrary to what that Spanish lawyer told us here.  TATOC is being a shill for Silverpoint, but then Silverpoint does pay them a bit of money every year so I guess they get what they pay for.

This scam really does need to be stopped in the courts.


Response received today from my query with TATOC regarding events at BHC and Silverpoints

Thank you for contacting the TATOC Consumer Helpline.  After checking we can report they are doing noting unethical or illegal.  Silverpoint are planning to run the resort with floating time which will allow owners to book certain weeks in a season, meaning you are not guaranteed a fixed week as you may currently own.  Silverpoint will still allow owners to book specific weeks (their old fixed weeks) up to two years in advance meaning you should be able to secure the same week you have always had if you wanted to.  This may be an advantage to some owners and a disadvantage to others it will depend on individual circumstances.

 

An AMG is being held on 11th January 2014 (Silverpoint have sent letters to all the owners notifying them of this) where upon these proposed changes will be voted upon as per the normal constitution process, I would suggest to use your vote if you are wanting a certain course of action.  Whatever is voted with a majority will be resolution and course of action taken. If you require further information I would suggest speaking with Silverpoint on their Freephone number 0800 949 6035.

I have emailed Silverpoint previously but they refuse to answer any questions.
 

Online charlie1

  • Supporting Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 697
  • Karma: +34/-2
    • View Profile
Re: SILVERPOINT / BEVERLY HILLS
« Reply #142 on: January 07, 2014, 14:08:54 »
So Silverpoint is buggering members by depriving them of their more valuable fixed weeks and giving them far less desirable or valuable floating weeks in exchange, and TATOC thinks that is fine.  It is clear that TATOC is now a pro-developer organization that will sell timeshare members out in a heartbeat.

We have had a Spanish lawyer tell us on this board what the real legal situation is with this fiasco, but TATOC just rubberstamps what the developer wants which is totally contrary to what that Spanish lawyer told us here.  TATOC is being a shill for Silverpoint, but then Silverpoint does pay them a bit of money every year so I guess they get what they pay for.

This scam really does need to be stopped in the courts.


Response received today from my query with TATOC regarding events at BHC and Silverpoints

Thank you for contacting the TATOC Consumer Helpline.  After checking we can report they are doing noting unethical or illegal.  Silverpoint are planning to run the resort with floating time which will allow owners to book certain weeks in a season, meaning you are not guaranteed a fixed week as you may currently own.  Silverpoint will still allow owners to book specific weeks (their old fixed weeks) up to two years in advance meaning you should be able to secure the same week you have always had if you wanted to.  This may be an advantage to some owners and a disadvantage to others it will depend on individual circumstances.

 

An AMG is being held on 11th January 2014 (Silverpoint have sent letters to all the owners notifying them of this) where upon these proposed changes will be voted upon as per the normal constitution process, I would suggest to use your vote if you are wanting a certain course of action.  Whatever is voted with a majority will be resolution and course of action taken. If you require further information I would suggest speaking with Silverpoint on their Freephone number 0800 949 6035.

I have emailed Silverpoint previously but they refuse to answer any questions.

As in my post 141 I dont think that TATOC have a leg to stand on. Its not what people think is morally right or wrong, its what can be challenged legally. If its stated that this has come from the committee and the committee confirm this and they have a clause that as stated appears to allow them to do virtually anything TATOC has no where to go.

This point raised by tco needs to considered and looked at if true. has stated to Martyboy "I believe, Martyboy, that if you read the constitution, the committee have written themselves a clause which allows them to do almost anything they like provided they are themselves convinced it is it the members' interest.  Ergo if it suits them and they are members it passes - See?"

How far could this clause go? Could this override the rights of owners if the vote is against them, but they clearly don't want flexible weeks. Could this clause weaken any rights they had if the committee pushes this forward as they say 'that they are convinced it is in the members interest'?

This needs unhappy members to question this with Silverpoints first. If this is not to their satisfaction than they will obviously heed the advice given by posters and obtain legal advice from a Spanish lawyer familiar with timeshare.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 14:10:43 by charlie1 »
Timeshare is a great concept and you will enjoy a lifetime of holiday experiences as long as you own the right product to suit your holiday style and take the time out to do a little homework.

Offline Carolinian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1654
  • Karma: +53/-6
    • View Profile
Re: SILVERPOINT / BEVERLY HILLS
« Reply #143 on: January 07, 2014, 18:40:57 »
As our resident Spanish lawyer has told us, they cannot empower a majority of members to vote away the contractual rights of other members.  Yet TATOC gives its stamp of approval to doing just that.  If TATOC really represented the individual members, instead of being a developer poodle, then they would be adding their voice to telling Silverpoint that what they are trying to do to members is an outrage and should not stand, and they should be at least a clearing house for legal action to stop it.

I have owned at resorts where developers thought they could walk all over member rights, and the members pushed back in the courts and actually kicked the developer out of the resort.  The first thing it takes is members with the backbone not to knuckle under to these strong arm tactics to band together and lawyer up.
 

Offline Mavo

  • Supporting Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6243
  • Karma: +48/-55
    • View Profile
Re: SILVERPOINT / BEVERLY HILLS
« Reply #144 on: January 07, 2014, 19:18:20 »
You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing or obscene.

Did you agree to the above when you registered anonymously Carolinian?

I seem to detect a few breaches of the agreement in your post below.

So Silverpoint is buggering members by depriving them of their more valuable fixed weeks and giving them far less desirable or valuable floating weeks in exchange, and TATOC thinks that is fine.  It is clear that TATOC is now a pro-developer organization that will sell timeshare members out in a heartbeat.

We have had a Spanish lawyer tell us on this board what the real legal situation is with this fiasco, but TATOC just rubberstamps what the developer wants which is totally contrary to what that Spanish lawyer told us here.  TATOC is being a shill for Silverpoint, but then Silverpoint does pay them a bit of money every year so I guess they get what they pay for.
tomeluk

Offline Carolinian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1654
  • Karma: +53/-6
    • View Profile
Re: SILVERPOINT / BEVERLY HILLS
« Reply #145 on: January 07, 2014, 21:02:49 »
Read Crabapple's reply post #133 and my response to that in reply #135.  Silverpoint cited TATOC's ''guidance'' in its plan.  You failed to respond to either Crabapple or myself.  You still fail to do so.  If TATOC has done something other than what Silverpoint says they did, then you need to  spell it out, not throw rocks at those who are trying to get at the truth. 

You were very evasive earlier about TATOC's role in this caper, and now Crabapple comes up with comments from Silverpoint that indicate that TATOC was supportive of Silverpoints move.  If TATOC had told Silverpoint that they should not try to deprive members of their fixed weeks, then they would not have said that their plan to do so was developed with TATOC's guidance.

As to the legalities of what Silverpoint is doing, the only objective independent legal advice on these threads is from JCorea.  I suggest you refer to that.

If you think it is right that people can be voted out of their conntractual rights to occupy property  by majority vote (and much of that a self-interested developer block vote), then maybe your neighbors will decide by majority vote to vote you out of the rights to your house. And, yes, depriving someone of their contractual rights to occupy property is buggering them.  Giving them a far inferior substitute that they do not want does not change that fact.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 21:12:35 by Carolinian »
 

Offline tco

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: +5/-0
    • View Profile
Re: SILVERPOINT / BEVERLY HILLS
« Reply #146 on: January 07, 2014, 23:49:04 »
You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing or obscene.



I seem to detect a few breaches of the agreement in your post below.

So Silverpoint is buggering members by depriving them of their more valuable fixed weeks and giving them far less desirable or valuable floating weeks in exchange, and TATOC thinks that is fine.  It is clear that TATOC is now a pro-developer organization that will sell timeshare members out in a heartbeat.

We have had a Spanish lawyer tell us on this board what the real legal situation is with this fiasco, but TATOC just rubberstamps what the developer wants which is totally contrary to what that Spanish lawyer told us here.  TATOC is being a shill for Silverpoint, but then Silverpoint does pay them a bit of money every year so I guess they get what they pay for.

Mavo. The poster is expressing an opinion on the situation as it appears to them. If it is erroneously false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing or obscene. then is it not in TATOC's interest to prove that is the case?  Tatoc's statement that nothing Silverpoint has done is illegal or morally wrong also needs to be proven. Illegal can be defined by the courts, immoral is many things and probably means something different depending on where you are sat.
 

Online charlie1

  • Supporting Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 697
  • Karma: +34/-2
    • View Profile
Re: SILVERPOINT / BEVERLY HILLS
« Reply #147 on: January 08, 2014, 00:03:57 »
Carolinian I would agree that no one should be allowed to vote away the contractual rights of even a single member! However they need to see what’s written in the constitution and confirm what it states and what has been agreed. Then to see if this clause is valid that tco refers too.

In the example you gave regarding your success against a developer I would assume that your members were able to act on a united front. I don’t think that there is a means for the Silverpoints members to be able to debate this beyond this forum. I suggested on past threads that all resorts should have a private members forum. There are many advantages to members having their own means to debate together for the benefit of each other and their resort. There are lots of positives to come from a resort and members working together.

As far as Silverpoints are concerned it gives the impression that it has to consolidate its resorts to remain as a viable business in timeshare and that has got to be to the benefit of its members to survive and have a resort. If that is the case the only module that can work is Floating weeks. To still have a resort and a timeshare ultimately has to be in the member’s interests.

(This is a growing problem as memberships dwindle. This will be mainly down to maturing timeshare owners. This has been discussed on other threads resorts need to define who their ideal prospective member is and then market this area intelligently. Follow this up with new ownership strategies and get your owners to buy from you.)

I believe that the majority will go with floating weeks. Perhaps if there were a means to debate this and act as a group more would want to seek further advice. The facts are that some members who are unhappy with this are looking at this in isolation and will look for the easy option and may agree, perhaps reluctantly to go with this looking at the bigger picture.

Accepting the fact that there has to be a consolidation

There are those who will not be affected with floating week’s and may actually benefit

1) Those in the RCI Points system and exchange outside of their home resort its not really going to effect. As has been stated the RCI points will stay the same.
2) Those that exchange in the RCI Weeks system some will actually be better off! That’s those who own low weeks in a given band will likely have a slightly higher trading value than they currently have as within that band they tend to take a mean average.

Those that it may not be happy with a floating weeks system

1) Those who own prime weeks in the Weeks system and exchange. I believe they will lose some trading power as in a floating system the weeks are usually leveled out in trading terms in a given band of weeks. (Silverpoints may have secured with RCI the same trading power for those members)
2) Those who use their week year in year out they bought to own their specific apartment.

Not everyone will be happy.

As for TATOC I don’t think there is anything that TATOC can contest as the committee have proposed this. I would be surprised if TATOC have not taken legal advice on this. There is no benefit in challenging anything without a case and that’s where you need legal advice and support. As I mentioned Silverpoints I suspect would have run this past RDO and TATOC and would have ensured that all the areas were covered.

The only way to unravel this is with a professional lawyer who understands timeshare. That costs money but rather than than spend time in costly litigation that perhaps may even set a legal precedent in favour of the timeshare owner it has to be in the interests of Silverpoints to listen and sit around the table with aggrieved members.

As I said this is going to happen and I feel the majority of members will accept and go with this. The only grey area will be members who stand their ground and seek advice regarding their personal ownership. If four resorts are to become two then there are going to be members who will be upset and for some quite rightly so.Those members as I have said many times who have enjoyed a specific apartment and week then in my opinion Silverpoints should agree a compromise with their member so that both parties are happy with whatever form that may take.

Silverpoints would prefer to have a successful business with happy members without a doubt. When I have seen change take place such as this in other Industries that has a clean sweep of change there has been a breath of fresh air as this gives the opportunity to review challenging aspects of your business and perhaps bring on board team players with other skill sets.

I will end with what I started with on another thread

In every industry, the businesses that look after their consumer’s best interest are usually the most successful. High performance businesses look after their current consumers, because they understand that getting new ones is 10 times more difficult and 10 times more expensive.

A Clubs most important asset is there membership look after it!
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 01:41:49 by charlie1 »
Timeshare is a great concept and you will enjoy a lifetime of holiday experiences as long as you own the right product to suit your holiday style and take the time out to do a little homework.

Offline Mavo

  • Supporting Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6243
  • Karma: +48/-55
    • View Profile
Re: SILVERPOINT / BEVERLY HILLS
« Reply #148 on: January 08, 2014, 01:21:20 »
You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing or obscene.



I seem to detect a few breaches of the agreement in your post below.

So Silverpoint is buggering members by depriving them of their more valuable fixed weeks and giving them far less desirable or valuable floating weeks in exchange, and TATOC thinks that is fine.  It is clear that TATOC is now a pro-developer organization that will sell timeshare members out in a heartbeat.

We have had a Spanish lawyer tell us on this board what the real legal situation is with this fiasco, but TATOC just rubberstamps what the developer wants which is totally contrary to what that Spanish lawyer told us here.  TATOC is being a shill for Silverpoint, but then Silverpoint does pay them a bit of money every year so I guess they get what they pay for.

Mavo. The poster is expressing an opinion on the situation as it appears to them. If it is erroneously false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing or obscene. then is it not in TATOC's interest to prove that is the case?  Tatoc's statement that nothing Silverpoint has done is illegal or morally wrong also needs to be proven. Illegal can be defined by the courts, immoral is many things and probably means something different depending on where you are sat.

Absolutely correct in that illegal can be defined by the courts, if necessary.
 It should not be defined by some anonymous poster called carolinian on a forum. He is not in knowledge of the facts, he simply makes assumptions on what he gleans from other posters and then uses those assumptions to fire off wild accusations.

 "They claim to have "consulted with various professional bodies" and "taken guidance from industry experts such as RDO and TATOC"
 
 The above is the latest phrase he has plucked from others and made assumptions as to the content of that claimed guidance.
 He assumes that the claimed guidance from RDO and TATOC must be one and the same and he also assumes that claimed guidance from either or both of the named parties has been used by the committee(s) and acted upon. What, if any, guidance was offered by TATOC will probably not be disclosed by TATOC. What if any guidance the committee(s) have or do take on board and act upon will be up to the committee(s) to decide to disclose or not.
 I do not know if, or what, guidance has been given to the committees by TATOC and so if I do not know then the chances of carolinian knowing seem to be somewhat remote.
 Guessing and making assumptions does not appear to me to be in the best interests of the members but that said is carolinian really posting in the  best interests of the membership of these resorts?
I think that the latest post by Charlie1 seems to reflect certain problems confronting the industry as the aging memberships begin to default on paying fees for something they no longer want or can use.
 Developers and Developer run resorts have a variety of options open to them as many still have sales and marketing systems in place and they also have the, unpalatable to some, ability to downsize and regroup. How those developers deal with the problem in the future is probably going to be the greatest challenge that the industry has ever had to confront and hammering those who may be able to assist in confronting that challenge should not be an option for those of us who have the interests of the consumer at heart. I am committed to try to meet that challenge and I firmly believe that a consumer organization such as TATOC is our only means of influence. Others will disagree but fail to come up with alternative solutions. All they seem to be able to say is that we at TATOC are not doing it right without offering up any alternative other than we should be doing this or that. They fail to recognise what we would like to do but are unable to do because of limited human and financial resources.
 
Where does this challenge leave carolinians pet, the owner run resorts? Many of these are run by amateur committees, which was all well and good in the heady days when the consumers were in their 40s. What now when half of the members are in their 70s and delinquent with their fees?

 Many owner run resorts have no structures to pursue delinquent owners for fees.  Take back the weeks and then what? No structures in place to resell or rent. Nor the imagination to find alternative markets.
 If the castle crumbles it is the owner run resorts who will be the first to go as they are holding  by far the weakest position. 
tomeluk

Offline Carolinian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1654
  • Karma: +53/-6
    • View Profile
Re: SILVERPOINT / BEVERLY HILLS
« Reply #149 on: January 08, 2014, 04:35:23 »
Mavo - You seem to know nothing of how member run resorts operate.  The ones I have owned at have all had means for reselling weeks they took back.  That is why they took back weeks, something most developer run resorts do not.  That is also true of many member-run resorts that I have traded into.  Indeed, for the first three years I was on the HOA board of one of my resorts, resales was part of my portfolio and when I moved up to President and turned that portfolio over to the next first vice president, we could count the number of weeks we had in association inventory on one hand.  The last resort I traded into in the UK, Sloane Gardens Club had only two weeks availible for purchase, both from members with resales, and none in association inventory.  That resort is member controlled, and it is also one where the members ousted the developer from management some years ago.  It was a good thing they did because the developer was running it into the ground (some members thought intentionally to get the property back), and under member control it has prospered.

If there is a consolidation, the only fair thing is for members to either get like for like or to be paid off.  Whether Silverpoint is selling or renting the resorts it is emptying, there is a money stream for them to pay off those to whom they cannot give like for like.  For prime season, a floating week falls far short of like for like, and it may in the individual circumstances of owners of other seasons as well.  I mentioned two member run resorts on Cape Cod which voluntarily consolidated, selling off the lesser resort.  The members there either got like for like, or if there was not sufficient inventory for some, they got paid a fair amount out of the proceeds.  There is no reason in the world that Silverpoint should be forcing members to take lesser ownerships when they have the money stream to buy people out.  The one profiteering from the whole situation is Silverpoint, and the members get the shaft.  The key is that when there is a money stream to pay off those who cannot be accomodated into availible inventory, then there is absolutely no reason to have to force them into floating weeks.

I tend to trust independent legal opinions, and that is what we have from JCorea.  Look at his posts.  These downgraded members need legal counsel to push back and assert their rights against the developer. Developers have an agenda, and their lawyers are going to stick to that agenda even if they have thin legal grounds to do it.

Oh, and I am amused by the stealth nature of TATOC according to your posts and all of their top secret dealings, like you have the illusion that they are MI6 and you are 007. If TATOC really represented members they would have made a public statement denouncing what Silverpoint is doing, but then again Silverpoint does pay TATOC for being an affiliate and doing so might throw a spanner in the works on that little arrangement.  And it might also create problems for TATOC's funding stream for another of its programs from RDO.  There are rather apparent reasons for why TATOC does not stand up for members rights.

I have read on these boards of developers trampling on member rights in the UK as well as Spain, The Former Company forcing members out at Club Britannia, which was then sold, and DRI forcing fixed week owners out at Wychnor Park.  I also recall you posting on these boards that you supported DRI's move to force fixed week owners out at Wychnor Park, because you thought that would make more inventory for points club members there.  You really do not have any respect for ownership rights of individual members, do you Mavo?

Developers can be fought and beaten in court.  That happened at all five of the First Flight Developers resorts on the NC Outer Banks.  It happened at Bluebeards Castle timeshare in the Virgin Islands where the local branch of one of timeshare's largest developers was left bankrupt while the member run resorts were left in full control and operating.  It happened at two timeshares I have owned at in South Africa.  It happened at a resort on Cable Beach in the Bahamas where a developer tried to close a resort and run the members out,  and the members sued him in the Bahamian courts and stopped him dead in his tracks.  Those are just the ones which come to mind that I am familiar with. 

Members should simply not put up with strongarm tactics from developers.  I wish the members at Club Britannia and Wychnor Park had lawyered up and gone straight at those developers.  I hope that those at Silverpoint do so rather than knuckle under.
 

Online charlie1

  • Supporting Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 697
  • Karma: +34/-2
    • View Profile
Re: SILVERPOINT / BEVERLY HILLS
« Reply #150 on: January 08, 2014, 15:56:44 »
Hi Carolinian we have had this debate before regarding a committee led board and I have just raised some of my comments on this from a past thread. In principle a committee led board is the way to go.  "Run by members for the members", however these are run on a voluntry basis by mainly mature timeshare owners. The committee members could live hundreds of miles apart from each other. They cannot always be that pro-active if say they have a quartely meeting.

A number of them just do not also have the experience in key areas like for example marketing for new members, sales techniques, evaluating their exit strategy, education and after care service for their members etc. I am aware that there are some resorts that are fortunate and do have that expertise or can access a supporting service. To my expeirence a high percentage of resorts don't in Europe. As I get some real crazy questions from some committee members and I have to ask myself why are these nice well meaning people on the committee.

A big issue that needs addressing, is just trying to get to a discussion point with a committee and then a result that can seem to take forever for a committee that meets every 3-4 months that do not use tele conferencing or even better Skype.

Most do a great job with the resort manager trying to ensure that they stay within budget and that can vertually be a full time job anyway.

There are some Developers who also do a good job and work with their members. I tend to find that this is mainly individual resorts.

To my experience there are some well meaning member run resorts that are a train crash waiting to happen they just dont have the experience and the same can be said of some Developers. Some are heading for a fall as elderly members are unable to use their holiday club and numbers fall. As the resorts don't know how or have the resource to top up their membership. We have debated this at length.

In my opinion it is of equal importance to check out how the resort is being run before purchase regardless whether is is a Developer or a member run resort.

Regarding Silverpoints we will have a clear indication where they will be in a couple of months.

As I have mentioned the disgruntled Silverpoints members dont have a united approach. They have not had the means to be able to debate this on a united front unlike the examples you gave. This forum I suspect only has a small minority of Silverpoints members who are actually viewing this thread and fewer still that are actually contributing to this. I also doubt if many have contacted Jcorrea Lawyer. How many have pm each other or advertised that on this thread and lets see what we can do about this together?

As said its going to happen and maybe some members might fight their corner and agree a win win solution with Silverpoints. Anfi have members that are either in the fixed weeks system or  in the floating weeks system. Both systems work together. Silverpoints though are reducing their resorts so depending on how many members they have may not make this viable. Perhaps they may be able to make a few exceptions who knows.

For a large number of members I suspect it wont make any real difference to them or they dont have any real interest or understand whats happening. To illustrate a point I had a member from Silverpoints contact me this morning as he has a meeting on the 14th of Jan regarding this. When we ran through the pros and cons and how he holidayed and used his membership it might actually work in his favour! My point being not that the floating system works for some, but mores so because he did not understand what this was all about was my main concern.

 It is now down to those unhappy members to heed the advice that has been given or to run with this and work the system.

At the moment were just covering the same old ground. Thats until we can see what changes have taken place and how this is run.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 15:59:38 by charlie1 »
Timeshare is a great concept and you will enjoy a lifetime of holiday experiences as long as you own the right product to suit your holiday style and take the time out to do a little homework.

Offline mabel

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
  • Karma: +5/-0
    • View Profile
Re: SILVERPOINT / BEVERLY HILLS
« Reply #151 on: January 08, 2014, 19:00:37 »


  Best person to speak to is beverly.clover@silverpoint.com [nofollow] who is customer service manager and she will explain all about Floating weeks.
The committee has done as little as possible to keep us informed and mostly only answer half a question from my experience.
If the committee were more helpful then we wouldn't feel so manipulated by Silverpoints. I suggest asking what the members think before making agreements!!!

Offline Mavo

  • Supporting Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6243
  • Karma: +48/-55
    • View Profile
Re: SILVERPOINT / BEVERLY HILLS
« Reply #152 on: January 08, 2014, 19:02:51 »
 carolinian
The scenario I have posted about re owner run resorts is happening right now and while you may cite instances where there are well run owner led resorts there are many more resorts under owner control that are not being well run and are suffering accordingly.
However to allow you to put some further assumptions up and to allow others to see that TATOC are doing something to try to assist distressed owner run resorts I am posting the following announcement.
 
TATOC and the RDO are holding a seminar on 7th March 2014 to provide advice and guidance on issues affecting owner run resorts today, particularly the ageing owner base and perpetuity contracts.

Find out what TATOC and RDO are doing to address the challenges ahead and what we’ll be saying to the legislators at a seminar and lunch from 10 am to 2.30 pm, prior to the TATOC Annual Conference at the Park Royal Hotel in Stretton, Warrington WA4 4NS. 

Overnight accommodation for Thursday 6th March, including dinner bed and breakfast, can be booked through TATOC on Francis.Seaver@tatoc.co.uk at a cost of £125pp including VAT.

It’s free to attend and what’s said in the room, stays in the room, so come armed with your questions!


 
 I see you make no mention in your latest post regarding the various assumptions and scenarios that you deliberately read as negatives nor do you comment on my points about the unfounded allegations that you continue to make based on those assumptions.
 Everybody is entitled to a view but that view should be based on factual knowledge and not on assumptions of future worst case scenarios.

The TATOC line and policy, as reported not by me but by the TATOC Helpline is that "Silverpoint are doing nothing unethical or illegal"

  In line with the above statement from the Helpline.
TATOC have to work within the framework of its articles of association and there can be no instances where they would be allowed to venture outside of that framework.
 The TATOC website is very extensive and contains much information which would allow you to base posts about TATOC on facts and not assumptions. You may wish to take a look on the affiliates section and in particular the Platinum sponsors. http://www.tatoc.co.uk/members/tatoc-affiliates
You may not recognise that for an annual four figure sum for Platinum Sponsorship that it is highly unlikely that for such a small amount TATOC would be willing to side with a developer simply because they produce what, in the scheme of things,  is such an insignificant sum. I am sure that other readers will be able to regognise it though and dismiss your assumptions as just another of your unproven allegations.

The invitation for anybody to learn about TATOC so they are able to state facts about it and its work remains and as yet nobody has availed themselves of that invitation and until they do then they will be unable to speak or post with knowledge.
 

tomeluk

Offline Carolinian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1654
  • Karma: +53/-6
    • View Profile
Re: SILVERPOINT / BEVERLY HILLS
« Reply #153 on: January 09, 2014, 03:33:26 »
Mavo, While I think that a correct statement would be that Silverpoint is doing nothing criminal, JCorrea pointed out that they are breaching the contracts with their members, and thus claiming that they are ''doing nothing illegal'' is quite a stretch.  TATOC is whitewashing their depriving members of their rights.

If Sandy Grey were alive, the Timeshare Consumers Association would, I am certain be standing strong for member rights in this fiasco, and would likely be helping members lawyer up.  The TCA was on the members side, period.  TATOC, in contrast, tries to play nice with the developers and leaves members twisting in the breeze. That is unfortunate and sad.

Even if TATOC does not have the backbone to stand up to Silverpoint, it would seem that at very least a strong statement against resorts trying to force fixed week owners into far inferior floating weeks would seem to be a minimum to expect.  But then when I member your posting your own personal support for DRI strongarming the fixed week owners out of Wychnor Park, it is crystal clear to me that you just do not care at all about member rights.

TATOC could also add some pressure on Silverpoint to use the cash it gets from emptying out those resorts to compensate owners who do not want the short end of the stick that Silverpoint is offering them for their prime fixed weeks.
 

Offline Mavo

  • Supporting Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6243
  • Karma: +48/-55
    • View Profile
Re: SILVERPOINT / BEVERLY HILLS
« Reply #154 on: January 09, 2014, 10:47:38 »
Again carolinian it`s just your assumptions on what TATOC are or are not doing.
 
 Stop misleading readers by pretending you know what is really going on when clearly you do not.

Stop guessing and get knowledged up.

The invitation is still there for you or anybody else.
tomeluk

Offline Carolinian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1654
  • Karma: +53/-6
    • View Profile
Re: SILVERPOINT / BEVERLY HILLS
« Reply #155 on: January 09, 2014, 14:24:07 »
Mavo - Stop pretending that TATOC is something like MI6 engaged in all this secret work that we just have to trust.  It isn't.  We have one poster here who has given us TATOC's whitewash of what Silverpoint is doing, and another who quotes Silverpoint itself saying that TATOC consulted with them on guidance of how to do this. We also have a Spanish lawyer who has given us the scoop on the legalities.  You can run, but you cannot hide.  All you want to do is be evasive.  That does not wash.

Also, you are personally on record on these boards of approving of DRI running the fixed week owners out of Wychnor Park.  If there is anything that needs to be done to protect timeshare members, it is supporting them against these absolutely despicable strongarm tactics by developers to take away their rights.  TATOC has totally fallen down on the job. TATOC needs to stop being developers' poodle.  It has an important role it could play in favor of members, but it is not doing so.
 

Offline martyboy02

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
  • Karma: +15/-3
    • View Profile
Re: SILVERPOINT / BEVERLY HILLS
« Reply #156 on: January 09, 2014, 15:02:07 »
What is legal is laid down by statue or common law, or the law makers of whatever land, district or area you may reside.

You may well act within the law that does not mean you are acting in a moral or ethical manner. Many institutions across the business world have lost this focus, all for the sake of making a quick buck.

Riding rough shot over people, clients or group members whilst acting within the law or some loaded constitution or contract does not make it moral or ethical practice.

So the contary to what a previous contributor had posted morals and ethics can not be put to one side and disregarded in the decision making process.

Survivor Of Anfi scammers, willing to help others

Offline Mavo

  • Supporting Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6243
  • Karma: +48/-55
    • View Profile
Re: SILVERPOINT / BEVERLY HILLS
« Reply #157 on: January 09, 2014, 15:57:48 »


 you are personally on record on these boards of approving of DRI running the fixed week owners out of Wychnor Park. 

I am currently at a European resort and the internet connection is a bit hit and miss I am sorry to say.

carolinian
Despite a fairly comprehensive search of the Diamond forum "Concerns" and 2 Wychenor threads,  I am unable to find any post by myself which bears out what you say above. Perhaps you would be so kind as to point me to the post to which you refer.
I did note that even then you were trying to cause as much mischief as possible but you were not involving TATOC at that stage. You only seemed to really start your allegations about TATOC around the time when I joined their board.
 It would not be a personal vendetta would it, he asks innocently?
tomeluk

Offline Morpheus

  • Supporting Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 405
  • Karma: +97/-1
    • View Profile
Re: SILVERPOINT / BEVERLY HILLS
« Reply #158 on: January 09, 2014, 17:39:43 »
Personally I DO get somewhat tired of the Mavo / Carolinian spats on here. This is clouding a very very real issue for hundreds (thousands?) of people / victims.

Ignoring that, the real issue is that having driven many owners away by their high charges:

- their "administration charges" for an owner to exchange into any unit / week but their own in their own resort are often as high as renting a similar unit locally, and
- very high maintenance charges on top)

Silverpoint / XL are trying to force owners of good fixed weeks to change to a clearly inferior system for them without any compensation or alternative.

THIS is what matters, not the relevance of TATOC (if any), its activity or inactivity.

Also the clear acquiescence of the committee in this is surprising - until you speak to owners on site who tried at various times to join the committee and found significant barriers thrown in their way.

Many, many owners at the three resorts are seething, others are simply so depressed it is sad to listen to them.  What is happening to all of them needs addressed, and in a court of law.

End of rant!
Long time member of MORPS (www.morps.org [nofollow]) the RCI Points owners group.
Experienced timesharer

If you LIKE the advice any member gives, please feel free to click the "APPLAUD" by their name and details on the left. It makes us feel valued.

Offline Carolinian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1654
  • Karma: +53/-6
    • View Profile
Re: SILVERPOINT / BEVERLY HILLS
« Reply #159 on: January 10, 2014, 03:54:29 »
I do not think the thread was on the DRI board as it was started by a distressed fixed week owner at Wychnor Park, and some others chimed in.  They were not part of the DRI points club, but on the contrary were fixed week owners about to be dispossessed.

I was a supporter of TATOC, and I support what it claims to be its mission, but had my eyes opened when reading an account on TST of one of their annual meetings and who jumps out from that but South Africa's notorious Bullfrog, who was an invited guest.  I started questioning that because he and his minions had crashed several South African timeshare resorts, and had tried to take over one where I owned a couple of weeks (the members successfully fought him off on that one).  I am well aware of The Bullfrog and what he represents and was shocked that he would be invited to address an organization representing member run resorts and timeshare members.  That is when I started raised questions about TATOC.  I subsequently became aware of the questionable nature of Silverpoint, which was also tight with the TATOC leadership.

The TATOC meeting with The Bullfrog came sometime prior to your affiliation with the TATOC board, so, sorry to disapppoint you but you have little to do with my concerns about the strange path the organization is taking.  Considering that TATOC was founded to represent member run committees, I do find it strange that someone such as yourself, who looks down their nose at member run committees would be invited to join its board.  But their embrace of The Bullfrog and of Silverpoints predates your membership of their board.




I am currently at a European resort and the internet connection is a bit hit and miss I am sorry to say.

carolinian
Despite a fairly comprehensive search of the Diamond forum "Concerns" and 2 Wychenor threads,  I am unable to find any post by myself which bears out what you say above. Perhaps you would be so kind as to point me to the post to which you refer.
I did note that even then you were trying to cause as much mischief as possible but you were not involving TATOC at that stage. You only seemed to really start your allegations about TATOC around the time when I joined their board.
 It would not be a personal vendetta would it, he asks innocently?
 

GoogleTagged