Which JURISDICTION is applicable to my timeshare contract?

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Chris

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Which JURISDICTION is applicable to my timeshare contract?
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2016, 07:23:50 »
Thanks again Marvin

I can't be certain at this late date what, if anything was in English and what was in French, I still have some of the original papers somewhere so would have to look to be certain.

Likewise, I paid for it with finance from NatWest Bank and I  don;t think I would have actually paid anything on the day of the sale as it's unlikely I would have had that sort of cash on me and would not have had a cheque. Again would have to see what papers I have to be sure.

Will message Jcorrea-lawyer later as you suggest.
 


Offline Marvin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 351
  • Karma: +15/-2
  • One life
Re: Which JURISDICTION is applicable to my timeshare contract?
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2016, 07:26:17 »
the amount paid on the day is not as important as if ANY was paid.
I'd rather be in the minority and right, than in the majority and wrong. After all I only have to live with myself!

Offline Marvin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 351
  • Karma: +15/-2
  • One life
Re: Which JURISDICTION is applicable to my timeshare contract?
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2016, 07:32:35 »
Also was the finance organised by you to facilitate the payment or

Was the finance organised with the sales team at the time of purchase?

Sorry to keep asking these questions, but the clearer the answers the better. For instance there are laws about financing purchases if they are organised through/with the sales team.
I'd rather be in the minority and right, than in the majority and wrong. After all I only have to live with myself!

Offline Chris

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Which JURISDICTION is applicable to my timeshare contract?
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2016, 07:39:50 »
Hi Marvin

Most of your questions I would need to see what papers I have to answer definitively. However, to the best of my knowledge the actual sales team did not organise finance I did this when I got home but where aware of what I was going to do.

Will see if I can find what papers I have before posting back again. Bear in mind we are talking of quite a few years ago long before the formation of the EU so the rules were different.

I will keep my fingers crossed that I still have the relevant papers but can't be certain after this length of time.
 

Offline Marvin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 351
  • Karma: +15/-2
  • One life
Re: Which JURISDICTION is applicable to my timeshare contract?
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2016, 07:44:46 »
Note to every interested Guest / Member:

If you feel your timeshare is not for you (I like mine) and you wish to give it up but cannot sell it, the question of how to proceed is complex.

This is why a Solicitor / Lawyer needs to examine each individual case.

Jurisdiction is only the beginning...
I'd rather be in the minority and right, than in the majority and wrong. After all I only have to live with myself!

Offline Marvin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 351
  • Karma: +15/-2
  • One life
Re: Which JURISDICTION is applicable to my timeshare contract?
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2016, 07:47:09 »
Hi Marvin

Most of your questions I would need to see what papers I have to answer definitively. However, to the best of my knowledge the actual sales team did not organise finance I did this when I got home but where aware of what I was going to do.

Will see if I can find what papers I have before posting back again. Bear in mind we are talking of quite a few years ago long before the formation of the EU so the rules were different.

I will keep my fingers crossed that I still have the relevant papers but can't be certain after this length of time.

OK at this point it means that how the purchase was financed is not part of the equation.
I'd rather be in the minority and right, than in the majority and wrong. After all I only have to live with myself!

Offline jcorrea-lawyer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
  • Karma: +102/-2
Which JURISDICTION is applicable to my timeshare contract?
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2016, 20:55:30 »
I think that if your timeshare was sold to you in Spain then Spanish law governs the selling of the product, and if it was in perpetuity then it is an unenforceable contract.

The Spanish solicitor may be able to give advice better than me Jcorrea-lawyer try personal messaging him. But before you do was the contract you signed written in English?
Did you pay anything immediately?

M.

Marvin you are right when you say that if the resort is in Spain, Spanish Law should be applicable but only if there is any. In this case it seems that the contract was signed well before we had our first Timeshare Act, Law 42/98, thus it can't be applied to contracts signed before its entrance into effect in 1999.
Anyway I am happy to examine the documentation if Old_wrinkly wishes to send it to me
Bringing legal advice on Timeshare matters throughout Spain.
Lawyer nº 1071 of the Las Palmas Bar Association. Canary Islands.
http://www.correaguimera.com [nofollow]

Offline Marvin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 351
  • Karma: +15/-2
  • One life
Re: Which JURISDICTION is applicable to my timeshare contract?
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2016, 21:13:48 »
you can only do the best you can.....
I'd rather be in the minority and right, than in the majority and wrong. After all I only have to live with myself!

Offline Chris

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Which JURISDICTION is applicable to my timeshare contract?
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2016, 08:46:36 »
Thanks for the replies. I will have to look through my papers and see what I have and if I think they are relevant I will message jcorrea-lawyer direct if that's OK??

In the meantime if I am reading the posts correctly as I bought my timeshare before Spain had any timeshare law then Spanish law will not apply in respect of the in-perpetuity part of my "claim".

As I understand it. from what I have read elsewhere, the European Union has been concerned about the problems older people have of exiting in-perpetuity timeshare contracts to protect their heirs/estate from future liability but the problem is complicated as seen by the following quote from I believe the EU Timeshare Directive.

The situation is more complex in certain countries (such as Italy, Spain, Portugal and France) where a timeshare right is regarded as a right on a real estate property (and hence timeshare owners have to be registered in the national land registers). Since they are then seen as intrinsically linked to the real estate property at stake, such contracts are automatically inherited with almost no possibility for the beneficiary to terminate them, unless they succeed in selling them to someone else.


Ideally I would like to be able to have my contract cancelled, even if it means paying an exit penalty to do so, as there is no realistic chance of selling my title even for a nominal amount, but at the very least I want to protect my heirs/estate. I understand that France now has a law that the heirs can seek annulment of the contract after the death of the title holder.I  believe this has to be done within 2 years but I have been unable to obtain an adequate English translation (the auto translations I have seen don't seem to make much sense).

I bitterly regret my decision to buy the timeshare, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.  I do not have the financial means to mount any legal challenge, even if such an option was available.

A further complication in the whole sorry affair is what effect a Brexit would have.
 

Offline TedC

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Which JURISDICTION is applicable to my timeshare contract?
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2016, 10:17:28 »
I think that if your timeshare was sold to you in Spain then Spanish law governs the selling of the product, and if it was in perpetuity then it is an unenforceable contract.

The Spanish solicitor may be able to give advice better than me Jcorrea-lawyer try personal messaging him. But before you do was the contract you signed written in English?
Did you pay anything immediately?

M.

Marvin you are right when you say that if the resort is in Spain, Spanish Law should be applicable but only if there is any. In this case it seems that the contract was signed well before we had our first Timeshare Act, Law 42/98, thus it can't be applied to contracts signed before its entrance into effect in 1999.
Anyway I am happy to examine the documentation if Old_wrinkly wishes to send it to me

Jcorrea-lawyer are you correct in your statement that, as the contract was signed before Spain’s first Timeshare Act, Law 42/1998, then it cannot be applied to contracts signed before it came in effect in 1999?
I understood that Law 42/1998 required that all pre-existing timeshare schemes had to adapt to the new law by filing a Deed of Adaptation with the local Land Registry within 2 years and that Law 4/2012 repealed the earlier law but still required a Deed of Adaptation to be filed.
The Deed of Adaptation could be of three forms, a) keep everything as it was but acknowledge the new law; b) re-write the constitution to replace ‘in-perpetuity’ with a fixed timescale or c) keep the clause for existing owners pre-1998 but have a fixed term for new owners post 1998.
The three forms of Adapting should be presented before timeshare owners at an AGM or SGM for approval of one of them and the wording thereof.
One Spanish lawyer who is RDO’s President in Spain has said that he believes very few timeshare schemes bothered to file a Deed of Adaptation

Offline Norm de Plume

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 824
  • Karma: +137/-5
  • Arthur Stuttard - Retired Barrister
Re: Which JURISDICTION is applicable to my timeshare contract?
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2016, 11:40:30 »
I seem to recollect that when I advised you on this previously that I could not find any reference to "perpetuity" in the contract.
If you have found the advice I have given useful and I have saved you some money, perhaps you would like to make a donation to the Prostate Cancer Charity, mentioning my name. (www.prostatecanceruk.org)

Offline jcorrea-lawyer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
  • Karma: +102/-2
Re: Which JURISDICTION is applicable to my timeshare contract?
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2016, 13:52:45 »
Jcorrea-lawyer are you correct in your statement that, as the contract was signed before Spain’s first Timeshare Act, Law 42/1998, then it cannot be applied to contracts signed before it came in effect in 1999?
I understood that Law 42/1998 required that all pre-existing timeshare schemes had to adapt to the new law by filing a Deed of Adaptation with the local Land Registry within 2 years and that Law 4/2012 repealed the earlier law but still required a Deed of Adaptation to be filed.
The Deed of Adaptation could be of three forms, a) keep everything as it was but acknowledge the new law; b) re-write the constitution to replace ‘in-perpetuity’ with a fixed timescale or c) keep the clause for existing owners pre-1998 but have a fixed term for new owners post 1998.
The three forms of Adapting should be presented before timeshare owners at an AGM or SGM for approval of one of them and the wording thereof.
One Spanish lawyer who is RDO’s President in Spain has said that he believes very few timeshare schemes bothered to file a Deed of Adaptation

Law 42/98 had to be respectful with the acquired rights so it gave the opportunity to developers to keep the old regimen with the old contracts as they were and only changing for the future ones. With this interpretation, that is the one supported by the Supreme Court, the Law respected everybody's rights. Developers may keep trading in a perpetuity regimen although now selling the weeks with a time limit of 50 years. New owners get pretected by the new Law and old buyers also have their contracts as they were initially signed. This is the reason why Law 42/98 cannot have retroactive effects.
Bringing legal advice on Timeshare matters throughout Spain.
Lawyer nº 1071 of the Las Palmas Bar Association. Canary Islands.
http://www.correaguimera.com [nofollow]

Offline Marvin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 351
  • Karma: +15/-2
  • One life
Re: Which JURISDICTION is applicable to my timeshare contract?
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2016, 13:53:58 »
I seem to recollect that when I advised you on this previously that I could not find any reference to "perpetuity" in the contract.

As I have said before, the devil is in the details. Better clarify if this is in the contract or not old-wrinkley
I'd rather be in the minority and right, than in the majority and wrong. After all I only have to live with myself!

Offline Chris

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Which JURISDICTION is applicable to my timeshare contract?
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2016, 10:12:25 »
Hi just to say that I am trying to locate my documents before posting further