Deeded or RTU ??

Started by heather, May 19, 2006, 21:16:06

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heather

I was told by another developer that Marriott weeks are not deeded but RTU. (Right to Use for a defined time) is this true? Can anyone tell me?
 

heather

 

tonyg

I'm not sure about it, but I think there is a mix. For example, Mexico and some Caribbean countries have laws limiting ownership to an RTU.

kekouri

Tony is correct.....many out of US resorts only allow RTU.  That includes Marriott.  Most in USA resorts are fully deeded....I don't know of one that is not.

That is to say that if its a Marriott USA resort, it s owned by the people who bought a week or longer, and MANAGED by Marriott.   You need to know that that relationship can change at every management contract time.  (Currently, VRI took over the management from Marriott at some units in Colorado.

One Resort management company that deals in the Carribean allows owners to get money back when the RTU ends....I think its on Tonys website above....check out the Royals in Mexico (I don't think they do this in Cayman Islands or their other locations.

I know that all the European ones are Right To Use 2074 - 2078

C

heather

Ok so if you buy a Marriott week in the US, it's deeded but not necessarily always managed by Mariott in the future. Marriott could hand over the daily management to another company but still maintain the property as part of the chain. Or is the latter lost as well?
 

tonyg

Marriott management is not guaranteed. As a general rule, if Marriott builds it, they will try to continue to manage it. For RTU's it's almost a sure thing that Marriott will manage it till the end of that RTU. With deeded ownership the HOA controls things and can change management companies.

heather

I did not know that resorts in the big developer groups still had homeowner associations. Is this always the case? This is really interesting to me because one of my reasons for not purchasing from them was what I understood to be the total control exercised by a mother company whose main interest is profit. Please tell me how this works then.
 

kekouri

When the deeded development starts, the developer (Marriott, in this case) writes a declaration of condominium to submit to the local gov agency as to everything that the property will entail....includes room sizes, parking, unit construction, as well as the condo docs and rules....ie...the HOA will have ROFR, no pets, (or pets), no smoking in rooms, no this or that)....as well as a projected timetable when PARTS of the HOA will be ceded to the owners.


After a certain % of the development is sold, they will ask for owners to volunteer to run for a seat on the board of the HOA.  As more % sell, more seats are given to the owners, and Marriott begins to lose their seats (and some power) as to the development.  Usually, the owners are in full support of most everything the developer presents....the do have the experience, but also do want to make a profit.

Sometime (Like Grand VIsta in Orlando) resorts become so big, the developer makes condo phases, that is, each group of buildings is give a separate (local for phase one, or phase 2) condo HOA, to answer to a Master condo HOA.  The master condo HOA will have MAR on the board until the very end of sales, when everything is completed.  Not all the phases may be identical.  (Some parts of Grand Vista have lock out, others do not)

In this trut form of ownership, the local HOAs report to the master HOA, and they all try to agree on running the resort....supposedly in the owners (not the developers) interest.  They can vote down stuff Marriott feels is necessary.   If Marriott does not feel the HOA is keeping the condos up to Marriott standards, when contract time comes, either side can terminate the management agreement.

You need to remember that this is a deeded week or longer condo ownership.

When some convert to points, (as RCI charging $199 US....the unrelated sales staff can ask for more).....some of the ownership rights are completely lost....

In some other points conversion programs,  all your voting power, and ownership powers are lost...(and some pay $4000 US or more  to convert their weeks to points.

However, Marriott still does not have a points program, other than their rewards program, which is a travel points program.  

Remember, a RTU is simply a long term lease....no powers at all to the leasee as to how the resort is run




heather

Well, I'm surprised! Is this the case with all developer groups? We have been to several Fairfield presentations and this was never spoken of but then it may not have been in the best interest of sales to mention these future possibilities.

And I paid to convert a week to points (not $4000.00 though) and now have lost voting power that I never knew that I had. This make me appreciate even more my two weeks in coastal South Carolina where the HOA seems open and inclusive.

And thanks so much for the detailed explanation.
 

tonyg

Yes, it is the case with most groups. Some try to hold on to control of the HOA and do so well after the resort is sold out. When the resort is running to the owners' satisfaction, the fees don't skyrocket and there are no special assessments, the HOA is easy for the the developer/management company to hold on to power. Owners get a proxy for their voting rights and that is about all they get. When things get bad in any way, the owners can take over the HOA and replace the management. This has happened at many resorts. The advent of point systems seems to subvert the rights of owners in those cases where deeded ownership no longer exists.

kekouri

I think Fairfield is a mixed bag.   Some resorts they may have taken over from oher developers (like Vacation Break-most in S Fl) or Shawnee Villages.

In the VB deal, everyone owned as weeks.  But then FF offered a deal for them to pay to convert to points.....not all took it.  I do't think the points owners have any HOA powers....(fairfield has their power now)...but the weeks owners ownership has not changed....they still own a part of their condo (along with FF.... the majority.  Guess who controls the HOA???

Its too soon to see whats going to happen at Shawnee.  But before FF, there were several HOAs for the various 'Villages'.  (And a master that helped hpld things together)

As for FFs own developed sales, I think they only sell points now.

Whats good (IMO) about RCI points is that they are always backed by an owned week somewhere.  (The less trading value of the week & resort, the less points value it has.)

Thats where many think ponts are a bit more logical than weeks.....but conversion fees and loos of owner power might be negatives.

I've seen some great FF gold crown weeks in SE Fl sell for less than $1000 because they were not yet converted to FF points

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