Timesharetalk

Timeshare Industry => RCI => Topic started by: Carolinian on March 28, 2010, 19:27:20

Title: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: Carolinian on March 28, 2010, 19:27:20
There have been rumblings, confirmed by some inside sources, that RCI will roll out some major changes in the way trades in the Weeks system are made, and this will happen in about two months.

Essentially, it will be a semi-points system with each week given an assigned value when deposited that will be told to the owner.  Weeks that a depositor wishes to trade for will all have known values, which will likely be dynamic, changing as supply and demand change. Like RCI Points, if your week has more trade power than what you are trading for, you will receive ''change'' back.  There will still be discounted exchanges for short notice inventory, but exactly how that will work is not known yet.  It will be possible to combine trading power from two or more weeks to get a better exchange.

This system will probably be rolled out simultaneously in all RCI markets.
Title: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: Simoncc on March 29, 2010, 08:38:40
In the short term this measure will help weeks owners see what their week is worth and realistically what exchanges can be pulled.

In the long term I don't see RCI running both Points and Points Lite systems and expect them to try and encourage owners to move to the full Points option over time.
Title: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: Carolinian on March 29, 2010, 10:29:11
quote:
Originally posted by Simoncc

In the short term this measure will help weeks owners see what their week is worth and realistically what exchanges can be pulled.

In the long term I don't see RCI running both Points and Points Lite systems and expect them to try and encourage owners to move to the full Points option over time.



However, in publishing values, it raises a lot of the same dangers as RCI Points, namely developers still in sales colluding with RCI to manipulate numbers to favor their resorts or resort areas.  For example, right now any blue week out there will trade easily into Orlando which is tremedously overbuilt in timeshare and awash in exchange deposits.  An honest set of numbers would put much of the year in Orlando at the same level as off season weeks in mundane places.  RCI has already dummied up the situation for the developers by calling Orlando red all year.  In RCI Points, Orlando was given inflated numbers.  Why should be not expect the same to happen with this new points lite?  A non-pubished set of numbers at least kept the system honest and fair in that respect.
Title: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: Simoncc on March 29, 2010, 11:59:50
quote:
Originally posted by Carolinian

quote:
Originally posted by Simoncc

In the short term this measure will help weeks owners see what their week is worth and realistically what exchanges can be pulled.

In the long term I don't see RCI running both Points and Points Lite systems and expect them to try and encourage owners to move to the full Points option over time.



However, in publishing values, it raises a lot of the same dangers as RCI Points, namely developers still in sales colluding with RCI to manipulate numbers to favor their resorts or resort areas.  For example, right now any blue week out there will trade easily into Orlando which is tremedously overbuilt in timeshare and awash in exchange deposits.  An honest set of numbers would put much of the year in Orlando at the same level as off season weeks in mundane places.  RCI has already dummied up the situation for the developers by calling Orlando red all year.  In RCI Points, Orlando was given inflated numbers.  Why should be not expect the same to happen with this new points lite?  A non-pubished set of numbers at least kept the system honest and fair in that respect.



So it is okay to pretend that Florida is 'red' all year round (and therefore for sales staff to claim that any Florida 'red' week  can be exchanged into anyother red week) but owners can't have the risk that some resorts will have inflated points values?

How do we know that any secret system is honest? Why wouldn't a dodgy developer want their resort to trade better than the one down the road regardless of the system used?
Title: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: heather on March 29, 2010, 16:22:26
[:)]Hello everyone. Life has taken me away from this forum for awhile so it's good to see that many of you "regulars" are still here.

When attending a board meeting two weeks ago at a property where I own in the USA, the management company presented an RCI update that anticipated these changes for November 2010. We were also told that the rating scale would be from 1-60 in one point increments.
Title: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: jclowrey on April 10, 2010, 08:12:43
I first saw the new trading power program rolled out at the ARDA conference! I dont believe that the to systems (Weeks and Points) will be merged because there are a few differences. The main one being that you will not be able to use the points partners programs through the weeks program. So yes trading power will have a number, however that number is not a points value, its a trading power! That was the pitch anyway!
Title: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: daviday on April 12, 2010, 00:18:00
This sounds a lot like the Redweek.com exchange system (I always refer to it as Dial-an-Exchange points, thanks to their tie-up). The problem will be in finding a consistent, transparent and fair system of allocating the points/trading power number, which Redweek.com have consistently failed to achieve. That apart, it's a good idea.
Title: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: Suebe on May 10, 2010, 21:51:54
They've had a similar system running in RCI S Africa for years.  Each week has a points value and internal exchanges within SA are made using points - there seem to be lots of weekend and midweek breaks available as well.  Exchanges to other parts of the world have to be done on a week for week basis where, presumably, trading power comes into play.

Sue B
Title: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: Carolinian on May 11, 2010, 10:18:21

I think you have identified the main problem, especially given RCI's history in pandering to developers on any aspect of its exchange system that is revealed to the public.  Hiding trading power has probably been the biggest factor in keeping it relatively honest.

For people who only have one timeshare week, an exact number system is also going to prove aggravating, as a ''trading within a range'' is much more user-friendly for them.

quote:
Originally posted by daviday

This sounds a lot like the Redweek.com exchange system (I always refer to it as Dial-an-Exchange points, thanks to their tie-up). The problem will be in finding a consistent, transparent and fair system of allocating the points/trading power number, which Redweek.com have consistently failed to achieve. That apart, it's a good idea.

Title: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: Carolinian on May 11, 2010, 10:22:35
Points partners are often an overpriced joke, so that is no loss.

I also do not think they are looking at any merger at least in the near term.  From what I hear, the new Weeks system will have more value bands than Points, as thus do a better job of identified the real value of a specific week than Points.  It will also be more dynamic as to changing the values based on changing supply and demand than Points.  Both of those are positive steps, is what is probably overall a negative change.


quote:
Originally posted by jclowrey

I first saw the new trading power program rolled out at the ARDA conference! I dont believe that the to systems (Weeks and Points) will be merged because there are a few differences. The main one being that you will not be able to use the points partners programs through the weeks program. So yes trading power will have a number, however that number is not a points value, its a trading power! That was the pitch anyway!

Title: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: Carolinian on November 01, 2010, 09:28:49
It now looks like the operative date for Points Lite will be November 15.

It is probably a good idea to print out the areas you are interested in as to what you can trade for now, so that you can compare it after the changes.
Title: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: fastal909 on November 01, 2010, 13:30:43
Why have i not heard nothing from RCI.Iam a weeks member
Title: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: Carolinian on November 15, 2010, 18:42:23
Here are some observations I made on another site of the new RCI ''Points Lite'':

http://www.timeshareforums.com/forums/rci/112127-who-got-whacked-valuation-points-lite.html#post411989
Title: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: Carolinian on November 16, 2010, 08:09:17
Using the values calculator on the RCI website, it appears from the poking around I have done so far that RCI has shortchanged the UK on its values.  For example, the highest value given is 60, and among others given that value is a 2BR unit in summer in a resort in San Diego, California.  Yet a larger, 3BR unit in summer at Allen House in London, almost certainly the pinacle of high demand and low supply is only given 52.  London is certainly a more desirable destination than San Diego.  Some other resorts I have looked at in the UK also seem to have been shortchanged in comparision to areas in the US.

Also, rather than dynamic valuation of deposits based on more specific supply and demand factors, RCI is now clearly using grids for valuation in the new ''Points Lite'' that Weeks has morphed into.  Grids tend to calcify rather than reflecting up to date supply and demand info and they tend to group together too many dissimilar weeks and give them the same value.  I have done enough poking around to identify the grid pattern for the Outer Banks of North Carolina, and I intend to spend some time on at least one UK area and probably one other in Europe.  The other key valuation point on the grids is award status (Gold Crown, etc.) which now seems to have displaced the real demand history of specific resorts.  Since every survey I have seen indicates that award status is a relatively minor factor in demand compared to such things as location, this will further distort RCI's valuations in Points Lite.

It seems to me that what RCI has done with Points Lite makes a much stronger case for timeshare owners to use alternatives like DAE and SFX.
Title: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: Simoncc on November 16, 2010, 14:49:42
quote:
Originally posted by Carolinian

It seems to me that what RCI has done with Points Lite makes a much stronger case for timeshare owners to use alternatives like DAE and SFX.



The key, of course, is availability and DAE cannot match RCI in this area. I paid for an additional Gold membership with DAE in February this year and put in a request for a Scotland August 2011 week but have not had any luck with DAE yet. I've now missed the best time to look for this type of deposit with RCI.

I have to say that although I was willing to give DAE a chance this time, my experience confirms my doubts that they can meet the requirements of those tied to school holidays.
Title: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: Willself on November 16, 2010, 15:29:32
ON  the other hand..we have never been dis-appointed with DaE. Availability or Service!!
It might well be that those owning  in Scotland During August 2011..may not have deposited
their weeks of yet..Remember if you deposit in 2011..say Jan/Feb..your 3 years allowance runs until 2014..but if banked before the New Year!! Only 2013..1 know when we would choose to Bank!!
Title: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: Carolinian on November 16, 2010, 17:10:23
Personally, from here on out my two summer UK weeks, which RCI used to get one of, will be split with one going to DAE and one to SFX, my summer NC Outer Banks beach week will go to rental as long as I am working in Europe as it is easy to rent for a profit, and I don't know what I will do with my South Africa weeks.
Title: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: Carolinian on November 17, 2010, 11:57:42
Here is another example of how the UK is getting hosed on ''points lite'' values in the new RCI Weeks (aka Points Lite):

- a 3BR summer deposit at Presidential Villas in Williamsburg, Va. one of the most overbuilt areas in timeshare in the US is given a value of 60
- a 3BR summer deposit at Allen House in central London, the most difficult place to trade into on the planet in timesharing is given a value of 52.
Title: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: Simoncc on November 17, 2010, 14:13:25
Williamsburg may well be overbuilt but do 3 beds at Presidential Villas have more demand from RCI members (the majority of whom are US based) than London?

I don't know the answer to this but the equivalent from a Europe perspective could be comparing Marriott's Costa del Sol resorts (which I know aren't in RCI!) to the Manhatten Club in New York. I'm sure that the Marriott resorts would get a much greater number of requests from European members than MC even though the Costa del Sol is overrun with resorts.

As a result, I would expect specific high demand resorts to warrant a much higher rating than the regional average.

How does a run of the mill Orlando resort compare to the Canaries/Costa del Sol  equivalent in the new system?
Title: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: Carolinian on November 17, 2010, 15:03:29
When I was an HOA board member, I was able to participate in RCI's VIP program, where they allowed HOA board members, resort developers, and resort managers to trade for anything in the RCI spacebank regardless of trading power and just give them back any week of the same color code and size.  The only exception to this was London.  I asked one of the women who handled VIP why London was not included and she said that London was the most demanded place they had in the world for the inventory availible, and if they allowed VIP members to get into London through VIP, no one else would be able to get in.  So, yes, London does trump everything else on supply / demand.

But even within the US there are some very high demand / low supply places like Charleston, SC and Savannah/Tybee Island, Georgia that have numbers that just do not make sense compared to places with a lot more supply.

And, BTW, I misread the location of Presidential Resorts in the resort list of the poster who posted on his 60 on another board.  It is actually a way off the beach resort at Myrtle Beach.  Having been heavily involved with timeshare in another beach resort area, it is the oceanfront resorts that have the big demand in a beach area, not those where you have to get in your car and drive to the beach like that one.
Title: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: Carolinian on November 17, 2010, 15:47:01
There is another interesting issue here, too.  In the old system, RCI would ringfence a fair number of deposits in Europe that were only avabilible to European members.  When I transfered my membership from the states, I suddenly found that, indeed, there was stuff availible that had not been when I was a North American member, particularly in Italy, the UK, and France.

One wonders that now that they say they are showing everyone everything, if they are still ringfencing any European inventory for European members?  If they are not, and with the new values in North America compared to Europe, Europeans may find it harder to trade into their own backyard going forward, if they use RCI.
Title: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: Willself on November 17, 2010, 17:10:16
LETS HOPE EVERY-ONE JUMPS SHIPS!! AND LEAVE THE RCIs...TO SINK INTO MIRE!!
Title: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: Carolinian on November 17, 2010, 21:53:23
As to Orlando, one of the most overbuilt places in timesharing, there was an RCI employee, Bootleg, who posted for years on an American site, TUG, and a shorter period here who used to provide a lot of valuable inside info.  One of the things he mentioned was that the resort with the biggest oversupply of inventory in the entire RCI system was a particular Orlando resort, Vacation Village at Parkway.  The highest value I can find RCI's new system giving there is 58 for a 2BR in a couple of December weeks.  That is higher than the top weeks, 3BR, at very hard to trade into Allen House.

Something else that a poster at another timeshare site uncovered was that for week 52 this year, RCI would give a deposit credit of 50 for a 1BR, but for the 1BR week 52's they already had on deposit, if you wanted to trade into one, RCI would give it to you for 11!  Yet that 50 points lite that RCI would give to someone who deposited that VV at Parkway week, they could trade into a 2BR at Allen House or indeed virtually any UK resort any time of year.

Something is rotten in the state of RCI!


quote:
Originally posted by Simoncc

Williamsburg may well be overbuilt but do 3 beds at Presidential Villas have more demand from RCI members (the majority of whom are US based) than London?

I don't know the answer to this but the equivalent from a Europe perspective could be comparing Marriott's Costa del Sol resorts (which I know aren't in RCI!) to the Manhatten Club in New York. I'm sure that the Marriott resorts would get a much greater number of requests from European members than MC even though the Costa del Sol is overrun with resorts.

As a result, I would expect specific high demand resorts to warrant a much higher rating than the regional average.

How does a run of the mill Orlando resort compare to the Canaries/Costa del Sol  equivalent in the new system?


Title: Re: Major change coming to RCI Weeks
Post by: Carolinian on December 03, 2010, 20:14:14
One positive thing to report is that RCI apparently kept the policy to ringfence a portion of its European inventory for European members only.  A lot of other policies have changed under the new regime, but this one seems to have stayed in place.  On another site, European members are reporting seeing inventory that North American members cannot see, just as the system used to work.  Given some of the padded values some places in the states and the underpointed resorts in the UK, the ringfencing at least gives some degree of protection to European members.  Still, there is more bad than good in what is now being dubbed ''Points Lite''.