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Legal position of not paying annual fee

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Offline Ned60

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Legal position of not paying annual fee
« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2009, 15:20:46 »
This will happen more and more as people finally manage to extract themselves from the burden of timeshare.
There's a huge amount of timeshare out there that is either unsold, abandoned, or being repossessed. The resorts still have to maintain themselves so someone has to pay - obviously the timeshare owners that are left.
Once the resorts finally bite the dust and go bankrupt, the remaining timeshare "owners" find that they don't actually "own" any property - they simply own the right to visit it once a year. This allows the legal scavengers to sell off the resorts to the highest bidder just to pay the taxman - there's nothing left to compensate the "owners".
If there were any timeshare "golden years" - for the owner that is - they are well and truly over.
 


Offline Darwin44

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« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2009, 16:59:52 »
Ned60, I think it fair to say that we are screwed.  However does anyone have any experience or knowledge of; at what point a resort would close? Is it 50% or more of non paying 'owners'?
It seems to me that this is a form of extortion inthat when you purchase a week you are not told about the effect of not paying your maintenance and that you will have to pay for every non-payer.
 

Offline Norm de Plume

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« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2009, 16:56:30 »
It all depends on the terms of the contract.
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Offline Homer Share

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« Reply #43 on: August 04, 2009, 08:04:56 »
No Norm. It all depends on the financial position of the timeshare company. Some will last longer than others. However at some point one will cease operating and, as Ned says, timeshare members will then be tossed aside. The 'contract' then becomes meaningless.
 

Offline Norm de Plume

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« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2009, 08:17:04 »
The extent to which they are liable and the point at which they cease to be liable depends upon the terms of the contract (including the constitution if any)!
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Offline David Floody

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« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2009, 17:13:30 »
Hi All I have a question, being an owner for 20 yrs plus I am wanting now to dispose of it like many others, reasons increasing maintenance costs.
As my contract states it is in perpatuaty, what happens if I decide to bequeth my 2 weeks back to to the club, rather than passing it onto my estate, does anyone know the legal position on this?
 

Offline Norm de Plume

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« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2009, 17:23:17 »
It depends upon the terms of the contract.  If you send me a copy by private message, I will have a look at it for you.  (I'm a retired lawyer.)
If you have found the advice I have given useful and I have saved you some money, perhaps you would like to make a donation to the Prostate Cancer Charity, mentioning my name. (www.prostate-cancer.org.uk)

Offline JenniferKiely

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« Reply #47 on: August 22, 2009, 22:33:23 »
Can anyone help - my parents have received a letter from a Debt company saying they have been asked to get the money owing from them and told it will be taken to county court and litigation proceedings issued.  They are elderly - one registered disabled - unable to fly anyway.  They own at Palm Oasis but have no deeds - they did try to get them years ago but due to legal matters - such as there being a dispute over land - never got them - what should they do - let it go to court?  They are obviously quite concerned.
 

Offline sensor

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« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2009, 04:05:25 »
I cannot advise you from a legal standpoint, but I would suggest that the first thing to do would be to ask the debt co to provide Notorised Proof of ownership, because if they have no deeds, who is to say they own it. ANY communication should be sent in writing and recorded delivery. I do not know of any Spanish based Timeshare company that has actually taken anyone to UK court and won, however, please do not take my word for it. Most Timeshare companys try various scare tactics but fall shy of actually going to court. I know of several T/Share co's that send out letters from UK address's on HEADED notepaper, so it LOOKS like debt collection, but it is a front to collect money that may not come in normally. They never seem to get to court though.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2009, 04:06:29 by sensor »
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Offline lawnmower60

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« Reply #49 on: August 23, 2009, 09:26:25 »
This is an extract from Palm Oasis  AGM last november it is a bit long winded
Appropriate agreements regarding the situation of arrears
With statements of account on the current situation displayed on the screen, the Secretary informs that the list of owners in arrears will be attached as an appendix to the minutes of the meeting and that, consequent to the approval in the meeting held prior to this one, apart form sending periodic demands to those in arrears (in their own language), the campaign has been maintained this year for collection by a firm specialised in debt collection, beginning with England and Germany, the results of which are also shown on the screen and which has achieved the collection of €499,803.90 in the period November 2007 to November 2008. Special interest is taken in clarifying that the purpose of this campaign to collect arrears, apart from collecting the outstanding quotas, is to recover them as owners in Palm Oasis Maspalomas, sending greeting letters to people as they pay, together with a DVD of the Palm Oasis 10th Anniversary and advising them that they have recovered the use of the weeks they have paid (subject to availability) and inviting them to come and enjoy our facilities. Several have already decided to come and visit us and have expressed their surprise and satisfaction at the quality and service they have found.
As regards the statement of accounts shown, the Secretary clarifies that a little more has been collected than in previous years, but even so, not having been able to collect 100% of the quotas established for the year has meant that the arrears have still risen, reaching a total of €4,714,247.44. This figure 3
(INGL 2)
makes it difficult to maintain the current levels of satisfaction (87%, 87.96%), as it is impossible to cover all the expenses anticipated in the budget, being forced to settle in the first place those considered essential (personnel salaries, water, electricity, taxes, insurance, etc.). It should be noted, however, that since the 2002 budget, the quotas have only be updated in successive years in accordance with the rise in the cost of living.
For all the aforementioned, the following is proposed and unanimously approved:
- To obtain the help of everyone to spread how important it is to settle the existing arrears, thus making it possible to maintain the current level of services and quality.
- To continue with the activity of the aforementioned debt collection companies, and extend it gradually to the rest of the countries.
- To continue charging the commissions charged by these companies to the account of the person in arrears.
- To authorise the Management Committee to negotiate, case by case and taking into account the circumstances, the amount of late payment interest, as well as the payment method, etc.
- To authorise the Management Committee to issue a certificate of the approved agreement and the list of owners in arrears.
- To approve the authorities granted to the Administrator (Palm Oasis Mantenimiento, S.L.), which may, in turn, grant power of attorney to third parties for collection of arrears through the courts, with embargo of the debtor’s property, regardless of whether the claim is heard in Spanish or foreign courts.
- To authorise the Management Committee to decide against whom court proceedings should be brought for the collection of the aforementioned arrears, once the steps taken by the specialists in debt collection have been exhausted, (at the discretion of the Management Committee).
Following unanimous approval of all the aforementioned the Administrator states that he wishes it to be known that the intention of all of the aforementioned is to reach an agreement for payment of the debts and not have to resort to the courts, as this would mean that the debt would be considerably increased with the legal costs and interest accrued, as well as the great inconvenience (for the debtors) that these claims cause, including:
- The need to travel to Gran Canaria to appear in the courts in this jurisdiction (which are the only ones competent to deal with the matter).
- Expenses for solicitors and barristers.
- Having to face possible embargoes on their current bank accounts.
- Having to face possible embargoes on the salaries.
- Having to face possible embargoes that may be placed on their property in their countries.
- Having to face the consequences of the data that may be transferred, of their status as a debtor, to the authorities or organisations in their own countries.
- Etc.
Due to all of this, emphasis is placed on the importance of reaching an agreement to settle the debt, for which those in arrears should be advised to bring their payments up to date as soon as possible, by contacting our organisation in order to endeavour to reach the best possible agreement.
Brian

Offline JenniferKiely

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« Reply #50 on: August 23, 2009, 10:48:17 »
Thanks for your help.  I will now write to the legal company and try to set out their reasons for non payment and see if they can establish if there is proof of ownership - my parents asked for their deeds many years ago and were bullied by Palm Oasis into paying their maintenance then and were told if they did not pay their timeshare would be sold to a german couple who were interested in it - if only they knew then what we all know now!! I will keep you informed of progress so others in the same position know if there is a loop hole.
 

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« Reply #51 on: August 23, 2009, 12:22:18 »
I have just read through this thread and found it very interesting. Its dissapointing that Angie never came back to say if the court case took place. Obviously its her business but its very fustrating and worrying for others in the same situation because the possibility of court action has been raised but once again silence decends and the thick fog of uncertainty decends on the question " Has any timeshare company been successful in using the courts to reclaim fees from timeshare owners.

Offline JenniferKiely

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« Reply #52 on: August 25, 2009, 13:51:51 »
I spoke to the debt company working for Palm Oasis yesterday.  They were unwilling to compromise or come to any form of agreement.  They allow you to pay the money off over a number of months, but would obviously add to it when the next lot of maintenance comes up.  They were unable to help with a view to getting rid of the timeshare although did say they knew of people who had managed to - were unable to be specific as to how - just said they had used a company off the internet - but now which one or anything.  I am left now not knowing whether my parents should pay the arrears or not.  They do not want the stress of court and the debt company would give nothing away as to whether it had ever got that far before.  Back to square one with arrears, not being able to give the timeshare away and escalating costs.
 

Offline Norm de Plume

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« Reply #53 on: August 25, 2009, 16:36:05 »
Your parents are liable for the maintenance fees, they are also entitled to the requisite documentation (I doubt it is a deed unless they are entitled to a share of the freehold, which is unlikely).
Their best bet is to say that they will pay on receipt of the documentation.  They cannot attempt to dispose of their interest without it.  I doubt any County Court judge would hold them liable for the maintenance fees without the delivery of the documentation.
If you have found the advice I have given useful and I have saved you some money, perhaps you would like to make a donation to the Prostate Cancer Charity, mentioning my name. (www.prostate-cancer.org.uk)

Offline lawnmower60

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« Reply #54 on: August 25, 2009, 17:03:15 »
Palm Oasis is a deeded timeshare you have to go to the solicitors in town to sign the deeds that are in english and spanish
Brian

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« Reply #55 on: August 25, 2009, 19:52:59 »
Jennifer
Have your parents actually had anything formal from the court or have the debt collectors just suggested the threat ?
Debt collectors make all kinds of threats but I still remain sceptical that they will actually go to the courts for all the reasons stated.

Offline daphncharlie

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« Reply #56 on: August 26, 2009, 08:14:31 »
We also own at Palm Oasis, initially in a studio(have the deeds for this) and then 2 weeks in a 1 bedroom apartment. When we upgraded we were told that the deeds would be sorted for us!!! We are finding it increasingly difficult to meet the maintainence costs and are worried what will happen if we can't. Have been trying to sell weeks since beginning of year and its getting to the stage where we would even consider giving the weeks away, but who to?????
 

Offline maryjim

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« Reply #57 on: August 26, 2009, 11:45:08 »
Anybody had dealings with The Timeshare Corporation ?  I've just had a call from them offering to Rent out my timeshare in spain using another company Pravda?  Apparently they pay the management fees and any profit from the rental comes to me ?  I bin scammed once before dont want to go down that road again !!!!!!!  I've looked at the website and was not impressed hence I ask the question on this forum.

All advice will be greatly received   Maryjim
 

Offline sensor

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« Reply #58 on: August 26, 2009, 13:37:38 »
I suggest extreme caution with either of these outfits. A search produced almost nil results except of course details of thier own websites. The Timeshare corp website has quite a few posts and referalls posted from supposedly " Happy Customers" who extoll the virtues of the company, but these can easily be faked.
Now, when you consider that after doing a 'WHOIS' search on the websites concerned, you learn that BOTH Pravda and Timeshare corp sites have only been in existance since 11th May 2009, one begins to wonder how genuine these " Happy Customers " really are !!

Both sites are only registered for a year, and do not give out who the directors/ owners are. the only info they give is the name of Nicolas Torres Bridgland
17 Urb. Las Lomas de Riviera,
Mijas Costa, Malaga 29649
tel; 34 647 585645  ( a mobile)
e-mail;   todabang@hotmail.com

He is cited as the Registrant Contract and Admin contact.
He may well not have anything to do with the companies and be the website constructor.

Both sites are linked, and one assumes owned by the same people, therefore the notion that The Timeshare corp is using another company (Pravda) to rent out your Timeshare looks somewhat suspect.

Once again, treat with extreme caution, and the minute they ask for any money up front, BIN THEM !



It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to steal your neighbour's newspaper, that's the time to do it.


Offline Norm de Plume

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« Reply #59 on: August 26, 2009, 14:33:56 »
According to the Timeshare Consumers' Association, Palm Oasis issued legal proceedings against defaulting owners on July 28th 2009.  It will obviously be some time before any actions are heard.  Other than this I can find no trace on the net of any successful actions.
The fact that a document is referred to as a "deed" does not necessarily mean that it is.  In Spain an escritura (deed) needs to be registered at the Land Registry.  Some Timeshare Agreements are witnessed by a notary.  If anyone cares to send me a copy of their documentation, I will have a look at it.
My original advice to Jennifer stands.
If you have found the advice I have given useful and I have saved you some money, perhaps you would like to make a donation to the Prostate Cancer Charity, mentioning my name. (www.prostate-cancer.org.uk)

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