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Are sales ill informed or lazy

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Offline Mavo

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Are sales ill informed or lazy
« on: September 22, 2009, 23:12:11 »

 Further to the recent post by Frank Burke
 http://www.timesharetalk.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11336#44365 and the starting of that thread by Graham (Doggy 50k} I wonder if DRI are missing a trick here or are the Reps just naturally lazy.
 Doggy is highly prominent on Timesharetalk, the most read and noted timesharers forum in Europe. Frank Burke is prominent, having just stood for member director, yet these two people have both been approached by reps with this offer as if they were both raw timesharers ripe for the picking. No pre research seems to have been done, particularly in Franks case where it was obvious that he would have read the above mentioned thread.
 Should any reps worth their salt be expected to know who on the internet are the movers and shakers who can influence their performance (and saleries) or is it up to the company to suggest that perhaps reps should read member forums in order to avail themselves of what the customers needs really are?
 It has to work both ways and in the present and most climates the customer is king.
tomeluk


Offline daviddwells

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Are sales ill informed or lazy
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2009, 09:48:46 »
Hi Tom

First, they are probably too busy trying to get the next sale to do any research! This seems to be my evidence from attending the so called "update" sessions, which we all know are just sales pitches. They often don't even have the latest information on your points ownership! I can only assume that it is "bums on seats" that matter to them, not the suitability of the punter.

Second, not everyone identifies themselves by their real names on this, and other forums, and possibly for good reasons. So it would be easy to do some research and still not know who you had in front of you.

Regards
David
 

Offline daveandmaureen

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Are sales ill informed or lazy
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2009, 09:58:45 »
Morning all especially Mavo,

An interesting question Mavo/Tom. I think the answer is (unhelpfully) that it varies. I have attended "presentations" sometimes called DRI updates a number of times.

Once was with a scouser at the Cyprus Affiliated Resort of a few years ago. He was an ex-Canaries Rep, and been with DRI's predecessor for years and was himsef (or so he said) a Points Owner. He was pretty clued up and had all the answers (well nearly all of them). He was very pleased to say he would be in Cyprus for years to come as the Akteon Tourist Village was very very popular and fully booked for a year into the future. That was in June 2006 and Akteon was not available as an affiliated resort in 2007.

Contrast this with a "presentation" at Garden Lago one November before I became a customer of the Former Company. The 30 something Rep was keen and enthusiastic and had learned his sales pitch quite well. When I aked him to switch on his Computer and show me "for example" availability in May the following year he was barely able to switch it on and I had to help hom navigate to the Former Company Site. Despite all manner of button pressing the only availability he could find was at ........... Garden Lago. This rather spoilt his "anywhere in the World" where can we take you next summer spiel.

Sadly I think research by reps is highly unlikely, they are served up a stream (perhaps currently a mere trickle) of potential customers/victims and left to ply their trade.

We were halfway through a presentation one time when the Rep realised he had the wrong Mrs & Mrs King and had to scurry off and apologize to his colleague for collecting the wrong customers. I think this proves that preparation is very limited, the other Kings were thirty years younger than us!

Cheers

Dave K
 

Offline Mavo

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Are sales ill informed or lazy
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2009, 10:39:30 »
The two responses so far seem to suggest that many reps "just wing it"
 It is very easy to check up on at least two forums and probably three.  My feelings are that this check could be done in a few minutes and probably only once a week in order to get a feel of the membership views on subjects and also recognise those members who have knowledge of the systems etc. A quick look at the list of members who are about to arrive at a resort would allow the reps to highlight some of those members where the reps would be wasting their time with a sales pitch.
 I would like to find out how much knowledge the reps have at their disposal when they interview us at resorts. Do they have a dossier on us with our points holding. List of holidays taken. Our ages. When and how we acquired our points. List of previous meetings with reps and any observations on those meetings?
 It can be extremely embarrassing for both members and reps when they treat some of us like they do only to find out that we know more than they do and that their embellishments cut no ice. A little research could eliminate those uncomfortable moments when some of us have them squirming in their seats.
 It would also mean that the knowledgable ones would not be returning and posting negative views on rep performance.
tomeluk

Offline seasiders1

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Are sales ill informed or lazy
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2009, 21:42:44 »
Agreed David. Firstly sales is a well known industry for a high turnover of staff, which in turn leads to a majority with little or no knowledge of the company and how it works. With this in mind remember how long it has taken us as members to work out how the club works, its little intracacies, and coupled with the fact that the rules seem to change every month, with different options available dependant on how many points you now own. Before,there was just premiere, now i have no idea outside of what i own. Regardless of how good the training may or may not be, this level of knowledge can only be learnt over months and years, not weeks.

Morale in sales is probably at its lowest due to the morale of the members, and our current attitude to points in light of dirty points scandal I would imagine that most sales staff will lie through there teeth in order to get a sale, and that is the nature of their job, to be conservative with the facts. This is never going to change, because DRI are right behind it regardless of whatever promises they make publicly,as every sales employer is, as long as they act within the law, and nothing can be proved, because at the end of the day we are clients to be milked at every opportunity.

Quite simply though, i can never understand why some members always appear shocked at every meeting with DRI ending in a sales pitch. Whether it is a free breakfast, a 50 Euro restaurant voucher, and now points free weeks away with an update, it is always going to end in a pitch for more points, with the added incentives of something for nothing(yeh right)and the frighteners of if you don't take this offer, then sign this form and never again will you be able to purchase points at this price(well not until we try again next year).

I personally avoid the reps purely because time off is too short to sit for 4 hours with someone who is beating around the bush in order to pull my pants down, and spank me for a five figure sum. Of course, being on holiday, your guard is down and don't they know it.

 

Offline Mavo

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« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2009, 22:12:07 »
So these reps are back at school, learning so to speak.
 Would homework then be a good idea? The best learners getting the best results.
  That is the idea I have put forward as a suggestion.


 Surely we already know why reps are so inept. Underlining it without a solution (seasider1) is not going to alter it and serves no useful purpose that I can see.
 
 The real question posed is, should the company or the reps themselves take measures to see that they are better informed?
 I can and probably will expand on this but enough from me for now as I am awakening sleepers![;)]
tomeluk

Offline Doggy50k

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Are sales ill informed or lazy
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2009, 23:45:47 »
Just to add to this - I did actually explain to the rep who I was at the start of his presentation and gave him a TST card!!!
"You know; the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering."

Offline daviddwells

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« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2009, 07:23:59 »
Hi Tom

It's all down to Pareto's rules (80:20). Why waste time trying to get the 20% of members with nouse, when you can easily get the 80% who don't have a clue and accept what the rep is saying? After all those in the know have probably taken on "dirty" points and might only want a small amount of DRI sold points in an attempt to clean up the dirty ones, whereas those who are not are the most likely targets for big sales!

David
 

Offline Mavo

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« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2009, 09:18:40 »
quote:
Originally posted by daviddwells

Hi Tom

It's all down to Pareto's rules (80:20). Why waste time trying to get the 20% of members with nouse, when you can easily get the 80% who don't have a clue and accept what the rep is saying? After all those in the know have probably taken on "dirty" points and might only want a small amount of DRI sold points in an attempt to clean up the dirty ones, whereas those who are not are the most likely targets for big sales!

David


 Exactly the point I am making David.


 Just to expand a little.I would have thought that the newer reps would be more clued up with the proceedures required by the company as they will have been recently trained whereas the old stagers will have developed bad habits and have a collection of off pat (and not necessarily truthful) answers to awkward questions.
 As I said at the start of the thread, it is possible to go onto various sites on the internet and see the names of many of the experienced members (Here,the YG and the pay to view your own words site). It could, I am sure, be possible for sales to be given an access code and password to the official DRI forums. Also info probably could be passed down from the company as to who is holding "dirty" points. People will cry Data Protection but I do not think it would apply to information passed to salespeople as they are connected to the company. All sorts of information could be filtered down or gleaned by the reps themselves by a short weekly visit to the internet.
 
Why give them clues?
 It would stop the pestering of experienced members who have no intention of purchasing more points.
 It would allow the reps more time to concentrate on "live sales prospects".
It would cut down on posts on the internet telling of bad experiences with reps.

 Lastly I wonder if Doggy got a clever rep who upon knowing who he was saw the chance to publicise, on the internet, the bonus of the chairmans offer and the cleaning up of dirty points?
 Or alternatively because he did not have the information, did he perhaps think that Doggy may be holding dirty points which he might wish to wash clean?
tomeluk

Offline Doggy50k

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« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2009, 19:15:55 »
Nope - I had watched them do the exact same pitch for days beforehand...
"You know; the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering."

Offline Mavo

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« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2009, 20:23:06 »
quote:
Originally posted by Doggy50k

Nope - I had watched them do the exact same pitch for days beforehand...



 So Doggy, are you saying that the reps are demonstrating a lack of flexibility and are simply rolling out the same pitch to one and all irrespective of the experience of the members they update?
tomeluk

Offline daviddwells

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« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2009, 20:31:36 »
We all know that many sales people just work from a learnt script, both over the phone and in person. Double glazing, conservatories, holiday sales, the list is endless! That's why some of them lose it when they are stonewalled and strut off as if you have personally insulted them.

David
 

Offline Mavo

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« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2009, 21:29:42 »
quote:
Originally posted by daviddwells

We all know that many sales people just work from a learnt script, both over the phone and in person. Double glazing, conservatories, holiday sales, the list is endless! That's why some of them lose it when they are stonewalled and strut off as if you have personally insulted them.

David


 Hi David.
 And that is why this thread is in Improvement Suggestions.
 It is part of our job as members who see the bigger picture to try to drive the company forward -- It`s in our interests.
tomeluk

Offline seasiders1

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Are sales ill informed or lazy
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2009, 23:03:19 »
quote:
Originally posted by Mavo

So these reps are back at school, learning so to speak.
 Would homework then be a good idea? The best learners getting the best results.
  That is the idea I have put forward as a suggestion.


 Surely we already know why reps are so inept. Underlining it without a solution (seasider1) is not going to alter it and serves no useful purpose that I can see.
 
 The real question posed is, should the company or the reps themselves take measures to see that they are better informed?
 I can and probably will expand on this but enough from me for now as I am awakening sleepers![;)]




Tom,

Quite clearly the emphasis lies with the employer to improve things, and when DRI took over, they promised to do just that. They haven't delivered on it, but have just devised more ways of enticing the same customer base through the same doors to in effect listen to the same talk.

DRI promised change as a result of customer feedback from members. They understood that people wanted reps who told the truth and didn't invite them to an update meeting on the pretence of selling them more points.

So in my opinion, i can come up with whatever solutions i want, but DRI cannot deviate from their aim, which is selling, and i can understand that, but what they have shown is that they are unable to change the format from that used since the birth of timeshare. All that has changed is how they entice you into the sales pitch.

What i would like is for a rep to be just that, and when the concierges' were introduced as just this type of person i thought great, a local with a font of knowledge about the place i am about to visit, which isn't going to lead to how many points i would like to buy.

Lo and behold, the first one i met knew less than i did about the resort and the surrounding area and advised i went to reception if i needed help like that, and then invited me for a free breakfast which i declined, knowing full well where it was heading.

However, what they could do to improve the sales experience is to have a 2 tier team, 1 that deals with new customers, and 1 which deals with existing customers, who are 2 completely different animals. Something made us all join in the first place, but that isn't the same thing knowing what we do now, so they need to sell the experience to us again, as they are asking you to part with a large sum of money again for something you already have so you need people with a more advanced knowledge of the product, especially relating to large points ownership.

Expanding on your suggestion, perhaps they could reward sales people not just on sales targets, but on retention of knowledge, which would in turn improve their ability to sell, although this is a long term strategy, and will always be affected by the overiding need to sell.




 

Offline Mavo

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« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2009, 10:35:17 »
Hi Seasiders1 and thanks for a constructive post.

I agree that it is up to the employer to try to improve things but of course we do not know the terms of employment.
 I do remember that there was a court case involving the former company and sales people who had not paid tax. The company was saying that the sales were self employed and the sales were saying that they were employed by the company.
 Obviously if sales are self employed then disclosures under the Data Protection Act may come in to play and the hands of DRI could be tied to some extent.
I can also see problems with a two tier system as the one dealing with new customers would have the greater earning potential.
 I think it is a very difficult problem, getting the best results for the company in terms of selling more points without being in the faces of the members on holiday.
 My own view is that DRI has tried to clean up the selling tactics with firmer instructions to sales and has got rid of many franchises who were causing problems.
 I feel that the onus is now on the reps to better inform themselves in order to raise their earnings potential by putting more emphasis on those most likely to purchase more points and spending less time with the knowledgable members who have a satisfactory number of points for their needs.
tomeluk