Timeshare Refund Network

[Jade]

I have been reading this feed with interest.

Forget all the slanderous comments – my question is why don’t you publish the court document relating to Anfi on your website and help other people get their money back? Anfi are not members of the RDO so taking into account everything you have said about your Consumer Association isn't this exactly what you are trying to do – help victims of non RDO members?

[Carolinian]

It appears to me that the problem in timesharing is that there are some unscrupulous developers and some unscrupulous resellers / exit companies.  There are also honest or at least semi-honest developers and resale companies.  Consumers often do not notice the differencej between developers and resale companies if they have been screwed by someone in timesharing.  When a consumer protection effort is undertaken even in total good faith, and its splits hairs as to not address part of the problem, then it is not serving consumers like it should.  Its tunnel-vision will leave some consumers frustrated.  That is where the problems perceived with Mindtimeshare and TATOC come in.  The RDO has concluded that a good cover for some of their shadier members is to foucus all the scam attention on the resellers, and therefore finance Mindtimeshare and the TATOC helpline to do that. 

This does not mean that either the TATOC helpline or Mindtimeshare is wrong in attacking the frauds among resellers and exit companies, but it means that they are in effect serving the developers interests by not giving similar attention to shady developers.  I much prefer the approach of the TCA which goes after timeshare fraud from all  sources.

[peachie]

Hi ,  I have been quiet for a while watching and reading comments on here , not on purpose but because i have had other issues to deal with .
But tell me ........ All timeshare contracts are generally the same in layout and wording , all timeshares are only interested in fees, none will let you out , ( given the odd smaller family owned ones ) , you cant sell them and we all know this , as fact , so why do you all complain about resale scams , why try to take resorts to court , courts who are not interested in the first place , for miss selling , when you have used them for last 15 yrs etc , and not complained , and now you dont want the product or the fees are higher than your willing to pay , you look for an out , ...............WAKE up guys ,  The resorts dont care , no one cares , so pay the fees , use them , or pay a resale scam company because they convince you they have a value , or stop moaning and look how best you can use your investment , and so far on here the only positive person commenting is Carolinian ........... NOW ITS UP TO YOU , or try to rip apart what ive just said . either way i dont care , this forum just seems to wind me up  the more i read it !!!

[eneri]

Quote from peachie; "..so why do you all complain about resale scams.."

Possibly because they're scams?

[Carolinian]

I have been reading this feed with interest.

Forget all the slanderous comments – my question is why don’t you publish the court document relating to Anfi on your website and help other people get their money back? Anfi are not members of the RDO so taking into account everything you have said about your Consumer Association isn't this exactly what you are trying to do – help victims of non RDO members?

This is a good point.  Anfi is in many respects one of the ''bad'' developers given their selling practices and their policies toward their members.  If it is not a member of TATOC or RDO, why are the RDO-financed ''consumer organizations'' - TATOC helpline and Minidtimeshare - giving them a pass?  Are they just avoiding criticism of RDO or TATOC members or is it that they are avoiding criticism of developers generally?

[charlie1]

Hi Jade

Mindtimeshare have established that they are available to assist non RDO and TATOC members if an Anfi member feels that there has been a fraud committed, then mindtimeshare is the place to tender your case.

Can you let this forum have details of this court document?

I have been reading this feed with interest.

Forget all the slanderous comments – my question is why don’t you publish the court document relating to Anfi on your website and help other people get their money back? Anfi are not members of the RDO so taking into account everything you have said about your Consumer Association isn't this exactly what you are trying to do – help victims of non RDO members?

[Carolinian]

Good point.  Let Jade provide that material to Alberto, so that we know he has it, and then lets see what he does with it.  Action speaks louder than words.

Hi Jade

Mindtimeshare have established that they are available to assist non RDO and TATOC members if an Anfi member feels that there has been a fraud committed, then mindtimeshare is the place to tender your case.

Can you let this forum have details of this court document?

I have been reading this feed with interest.

Forget all the slanderous comments – my question is why don’t you publish the court document relating to Anfi on your website and help other people get their money back? Anfi are not members of the RDO so taking into account everything you have said about your Consumer Association isn't this exactly what you are trying to do – help victims of non RDO members?

[Kevscar]

Meanwhile on Monday I'll contact the Spanish Police and see if he really is an Inspector who's been on leave for 10 years

[charlie1]

Alberto has updated his website so timeshare owners know where they stand with mindtimeshare and can identify RDO and TATOC members. I will take this as a positive from where we were.

I was surprised with how few members RDO have compared to when I last looked several years ago.

[Jade Miller]

Good point.  Let Jade provide that material to Alberto, so that we know he has it, and then lets see what he does with it.  Action speaks louder than words.

Hi Jade

Mindtimeshare have established that they are available to assist non RDO and TATOC members if an Anfi member feels that there has been a fraud committed, then mindtimeshare is the place to tender your case.

Can you let this forum have details of this court document?

I have been reading this feed with interest.

Forget all the slanderous comments – my question is why don’t you publish the court document relating to Anfi on your website and help other people get their money back? Anfi are not members of the RDO so taking into account everything you have said about your Consumer Association isn't this exactly what you are trying to do – help victims of non RDO members?

Dear Carolinian
As you suggested I did send Alberto Garcia the details of the case against Anfi and as expected he hasn't made any comment on it on his blog about it and I think we all know why this is.
Regardless of what he says his “Selective” “Consumer Association” will not publish anything about any timeshare companies. He claims that he will not report on any timeshare companies who are members of the RDO, fair enough; we have all read his excuses on that but Anfi are not members of the RDO, I have given him the sentence and still he does absolutely nothing.
I have just received news about another sentence against Anfi made by the high court – as soon as I have a copy of it I will send it to Garcia but I bet you any money he will not mention it anywhere on any of his blogs.
As you said actions speak louder than words and I think his lack of action speaks volumes.

[charlie1]

Hi Jade can you send the details of the court documents to this forum please
We don't want it said that the court documents don't exist by mindtimeshare and its just another way of discrediting them.
 

Good point.  Let Jade provide that material to Alberto, so that we know he has it, and then lets see what he does with it.  Action speaks louder than words.

Hi Jade

Mindtimeshare have established that they are available to assist non RDO and TATOC members if an Anfi member feels that there has been a fraud committed, then mindtimeshare is the place to tender your case.

Can you let this forum have details of this court document?

I have been reading this feed with interest.

Forget all the slanderous comments – my question is why don’t you publish the court document relating to Anfi on your website and help other people get their money back? Anfi are not members of the RDO so taking into account everything you have said about your Consumer Association isn't this exactly what you are trying to do – help victims of non RDO members?

Dear Carolinian
As you suggested I did send Alberto Garcia the details of the case against Anfi and as expected he hasn't made any comment on it on his blog about it and I think we all know why this is.
Regardless of what he says his “Selective” “Consumer Association” will not publish anything about any timeshare companies. He claims that he will not report on any timeshare companies who are members of the RDO, fair enough; we have all read his excuses on that but Anfi are not members of the RDO, I have given him the sentence and still he does absolutely nothing.
I have just received news about another sentence against Anfi made by the high court – as soon as I have a copy of it I will send it to Garcia but I bet you any money he will not mention it anywhere on any of his blogs.
As you said actions speak louder than words and I think his lack of action speaks volumes.

[Jade Miller]

Hi Jade can you send the details of the court documents to this forum please
We don't want it said that the court documents don't exist by mindtimeshare and its just another way of discrediting them.
 

Good point.  Let Jade provide that material to Alberto, so that we know he has it, and then lets see what he does with it.  Action speaks louder than words.

Hi Jade

Mindtimeshare have established that they are available to assist non RDO and TATOC members if an Anfi member feels that there has been a fraud committed, then mindtimeshare is the place to tender your case.

Can you let this forum have details of this court document?

I have been reading this feed with interest.

Forget all the slanderous comments – my question is why don’t you publish the court document relating to Anfi on your website and help other people get their money back? Anfi are not members of the RDO so taking into account everything you have said about your Consumer Association isn't this exactly what you are trying to do – help victims of non RDO members?

Dear Carolinian
As you suggested I did send Alberto Garcia the details of the case against Anfi and as expected he hasn't made any comment on it on his blog about it and I think we all know why this is.
Regardless of what he says his “Selective” “Consumer Association” will not publish anything about any timeshare companies. He claims that he will not report on any timeshare companies who are members of the RDO, fair enough; we have all read his excuses on that but Anfi are not members of the RDO, I have given him the sentence and still he does absolutely nothing.
I have just received news about another sentence against Anfi made by the high court – as soon as I have a copy of it I will send it to Garcia but I bet you any money he will not mention it anywhere on any of his blogs.
As you said actions speak louder than words and I think his lack of action speaks volumes.

Hi Charlie1,

This is what i sent to Mr Alberto Garcia,

Dear Mr Garcia
Please find attached a copy of a recent sentence against Anfi.
As you can see the judge rendered their contact null and void because they have taken a deposit during the cooling off period. As you know this is illegal. Even the fact that they tried to circumvent the law by using a third party trustee was no defence. Taking a deposit within the cooling off period - even via a third party - is still illegal.
The judge ordered Anfi to give back all the money which the client had paid including double the deposit and all legal fees.
Im sure you will agree that this is excellent news for any Timeshare owner who paid a deposit within the cooling off period because regardless of the resort they now have cause for redress.  I know there are other similar recent cases against timeshare companies where exactly the same ruling has been applied.
I would be grateful if you could post this information on your website mindtimeshare.me to advise other Timeshare owners that if they paid a deposit within the cooling off period then they have the chance to use this precedent case to have their contracts declared null and void too and the chance to get all their money back.

Here are the sentences:

docs.google.com/file/d/0B40TznBcS4fTRUxEQTgzRkhuUUk/edit?usp=sharing

docs.google.com/file/d/0B40TznBcS4fTbXo1cjkyRTFmN28/edit?usp=sharing

Jade.

[Carolinian]

Well, Alberto, here is a rogue developer which is not a member of RDO or TATOC, and they seem to have been nailed by the courts, something other consumers need to know about.  What do you say?

[jcorrea-lawyer]

This thread has been very active lately and very interesting, I must add.

To my opinion the work of Mr. García denouncing those fake companies is remarkable, and I encourage him to continue in the same line of action. I also think, as it has been said in this same thread,  this performance is a “bit lame”. The complaints, in my opinion, should be made both against Resale and Sales companies which act unlawfully. Reporting does not imply sanctioning, and as Mindtimeshare does not sanction resellers, but just notifies the authorities of this “malpractice”, the same could be done with the sales companies, denouncing the illegal activity and then reporting to RDO or TATOC, which then will start the necessary disciplinary proceedings that could end with sanctions on the defaulting company. At the end of the day Mindtimeshare is a Consumers Association, which aim is to help consumers being their public voice.

Regarding the court's decisions provided by Mr. Jade, I know them. In fact there were three judgments of Court nº 3 of San Bartolomé, dated the same day, which cancelled the contracts. As you can see at the left up side, the name that appears, hand written, is M. Rodríguez Ceballos. This is a "first instance" sentence and is subject to appeal, that I assume Anfi will do. The other one is from the "Court of Appeal" after having reviewed a "first instance" sentence. This was one of the first decisions that come out from the Court of Appeal and that are changing the initial position held by the "County Courts" (first instance) that were more in favor of the Sales Companies. This judgment together with the one I mentioned in my thread, show this change. I particularly consider this good news for consumers.

Have all a productive day!

Javier Correa

[charlie1]

Thank you Jcorrea your input is appreciated. I think we all agree that Mindtimeshare should have a free rein to report all alleged scams and dodgy dealing but Mindtimeshare is funded by RDO and they have decided what perimeters Mindtimeshare are able to work within. This may include Anfi as they are a big player and perhaps no one wants to be seen to rock the boat. It would be difficult for Mindtimeshare to function without that financial backing.

However within the areas that Mindtimeshare operate I think that a good job is being done. I am sure in my opinion that Alberto would want things differently, not that he can ever express this.

My Spanish is not good so a brief overview of the courts decisions by yourself is welcome.

This thread has been very active lately and very interesting, I must add.

To my opinion the work of Mr. García denouncing those fake companies is remarkable, and I encourage him to continue in the same line of action. I also think, as it has been said in this same thread,  this performance is a “bit lame”. The complaints, in my opinion, should be made both against Resale and Sales companies which act unlawfully. Reporting does not imply sanctioning, and as Mindtimeshare does not sanction resellers, but just notifies the authorities of this “malpractice”, the same could be done with the sales companies, denouncing the illegal activity and then reporting to RDO or TATOC, which then will start the necessary disciplinary proceedings that could end with sanctions on the defaulting company. At the end of the day Mindtimeshare is a Consumers Association, which aim is to help consumers being their public voice.

Regarding the court's decisions provided by Mr. Jade, I know them. In fact there were three judgments of Court nº 3 of San Bartolomé, dated the same day, which cancelled the contracts. As you can see at the left up side, the name that appears, hand written, is M. Rodríguez Ceballos. This is a "first instance" sentence and is subject to appeal, that I assume Anfi will do. The other one is from the "Court of Appeal" after having reviewed a "first instance" sentence. This was one of the first decisions that come out from the Court of Appeal and that are changing the initial position held by the "County Courts" (first instance) that were more in favor of the Sales Companies. This judgment together with the one I mentioned in my thread, show this change. I particularly consider this good news for consumers.

Have all a productive day!

Javier Correa

[Mindtimeshare]

Clarifying concerns about Mindtimeshare, Anfi and Resort Properties: http://wp.me/p1kmoi-Od [nofollow]

[Carolinian]

Clarifying concerns about Mindtimeshare, Anfi and Resort Properties: http://wp.me/p1kmoi-Od

Well that clarified only one thing - that Mindtimeshare is doing all they can to whitewash these people.  First, the issue is Silverpoint as much as it is Resort Properties.  You do not even mention Silverpoint.  Second, the issue you address is NOT even one that those who question your practices are even concerned about at all.  That response is as phony as a three pound note.  Third, you do not even mention sales practices, which ARE a big concern about these resorts.  Fourth, you do NOT mention anti-member policies like wildly excessive transfer fees and huge and unconsionable fees to use independent exchange companies.  What this has clarified is that Mindtimeshare is in bed with rogue developers, whether they are in RDO or not.

[Sandy Grey]

Agreed, Carolinian, and Alberto  not only failed to mention Silverpoint but also failed to mention the outcome of the  claims in the Tenerife and UK courts  involving Re5ort Propertie5

Sandy Grey

[jcorrea-lawyer]

Clarifying concerns about Mindtimeshare, Anfi and Resort Properties: http://wp.me/p1kmoi-Od [nofollow]

Disappointing. I follow @mindtimeshare on twitter with great interest and thought it was a truly Consumers Association but if it can't do anything against developers, then, is partly useless.

Consumers consume, they use timeshare products, either buy, rent or resell them. Any of these aspects may be of the maximum interest for a consumer association, even more when it is specialized in timeshare. In fact, all start with the developers, none reseller will exist if there is no seller in the first place. As I previously said, denouncing or reporting an ilegal performance does not mean to judge nor sanction it, it is just to become the consumer's voice.

[The Insider]

Following this thread has been very interesting. Many of you believe the same as I do, a consumer association should be there to protect all the consumers not just some. For too many years the big guns in timeshare have had it their own way, it´s about time a new independent organisation set up by the EU was put into place to police the industry. We cannot trust the resort owners or developers to do it, they have had their chance and failed miserably, now is the time to put them in their place!